ssiguy2
Senior Member
I can definitely see the similarities but I thought GO RER would be using commuter rail fares and Smartrax would simply be another Toronto subway line run by the TTC?
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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
Electrify
Senior Member
In theory, that is what it is advertised as.
In reality, it will be GO.
In reality, it will be GO.
salsa
Senior Member
GO RER will have fare integration.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
GO RER achieves exactly the same thing as SmartTrack. There is no reason for SmartTrack to exist, other than to win Tory an election. It's all a big lie.
ehlow
Senior Member
We don't know how far GO RER will move towards being a TTC rapid transit line.
For example, will the GO RER plan add new stations, or move existing ones to better connect with other TTC routes? Or will it use only the existing stations? If more stations were added within Toronto, it would be more useful for getting around the city, but slower for those commuting in.
Sure, GO RER has fare integration, but what does that mean? You could have it be part of the TTC network at cost TTC fare with free transfers to the rest of the network, just like a TTC bus, LRT, or subway, or it could be GO fare with some discount if you also by a TTC trip. Fare policy & prices could make a difference in how they are used. If the line is part of the TTC system then that's a big deal.
I know you guys hate Tory, but you have to admit that we should hope that for GO RER Metrolinx is at least looking at the possibility of adding more stations within Toronto, like in smart track. We'll see how fare integration works, but there's a difference between a GO line being on the TTC rapid transit map and being part of the system with TTC fares, or being priced more as a commuter system as it is currently.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
No, we don't yet know where the new stations will be. We'll know soon enough. Unlike Tory's campaign, Metrolinx has enough integrity not to put 22 random dots on a map without any justification for them.
Then if a Mayor Tory wants fare integration, he's more than welcome to spend $0.50 on a postage stamp to send a letter politely asking Metrolinx for fare integration. I'm sure something can be worked out. It would be immeasurably cheaper, much faster to implement and most importantly, it's politically feasible (unlike SmartTrack). There's no need for this $8 Billion boondoggle.
I don't hate John Tory. I was actually supporter of his until he came out with SmartTrack. It reeks of fiscally irresponsible political pandering.
We should know soon enough where those stations are.
I don't mind SmartTrack, for the simple reason that it got a GO REX-type system on the radar in municipal politics. The debate has for so long been centred around subways vs LRTs, while completely ignoring other feasible options that in many cases would actually do the intended job better those two options (like GO REX for long haul and BRTs for short hauls on a medium capacity route). While the Liberals somewhat did during the election, it has been Tory who has brought GO REX into the discussion about transit solutions.
The reality is that it's close enough to what Metrolinx is working on for Tory to claim victory even if Metrolinx doesn't change their plans at all if Tory wins the election. SmartTrack is 90% what Metrolinx was going to do anyway. SmartTrack is nothing but a more Toronto-centric GO REX, which could be integrated very well into a regional GO REX system (see any of my maps since, oh, 2011 for examples of how).
People are always complaining that politicians seem to make up transit plans out of thin air that are inconsistent with the "official" transit plans, which results in years of bickering and nothing getting done. All John Tory has done is rebranded an existing plan to make it his own, but aside from a few minor differences, it's still the "official" plan! The level of bickering that will result if Tory wins is nothing compared to what happened when Ford won. Metrolinx will come back and say "here's what we're proposing". Tory will say, "looks like about what I had, throw in a good fare integration model and we'll call it a day". Done.
The reality is that it's close enough to what Metrolinx is working on for Tory to claim victory even if Metrolinx doesn't change their plans at all if Tory wins the election. SmartTrack is 90% what Metrolinx was going to do anyway. SmartTrack is nothing but a more Toronto-centric GO REX, which could be integrated very well into a regional GO REX system (see any of my maps since, oh, 2011 for examples of how).
People are always complaining that politicians seem to make up transit plans out of thin air that are inconsistent with the "official" transit plans, which results in years of bickering and nothing getting done. All John Tory has done is rebranded an existing plan to make it his own, but aside from a few minor differences, it's still the "official" plan! The level of bickering that will result if Tory wins is nothing compared to what happened when Ford won. Metrolinx will come back and say "here's what we're proposing". Tory will say, "looks like about what I had, throw in a good fare integration model and we'll call it a day". Done.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
You seem to forget that SmartTrack will eliminate the planned Relief Line. That is not the official plan.
I don't think it will. There's too much political momentum behind it for one guy to stop it. I think Tory excluded it from his map to not make it look like he was advocating for a massive increase in spending (he is trying to appeal to the right-of-centre crowd, after all). He omitted the Finch West and Sheppard East LRTs from his map for political reasons as well.
Both GO REX and the DRL will still happen, even if Tory wins.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Well if he supports the Relief Line then he should just come put and say it. He's not getting any support from me based on the wishful thinking that maybe he was lying when he indicated that he wanted wanted to cancel the Relief Line in order to grab more votes.
ksun
Senior Member
I agree that it will be a bad plan to cancel the DRL that vastly improves rapid transit on Queen/King or one that replaces it with some pure suburban commute line that only travels between a few suburban spots and Union station.
ehlow
Senior Member
I agree, but I think there's interesting ideas in that 10% that's (possibly) different from GO RER, the idea of the TTC taking it over as a TTC route on the subway map with TTC fares (which is not necessarily the same as "fare integration"), and the idea of adding more stations.
I actually think that based on the stops on the map, it could be useful for travel within Toronto and downtown Toronto.
For example, if the frequency on this line is high enough (at least every 6 min let's say), then it could be well worth it to take it from Union to Liberty Village rather than the King streetcar, since the streetcar is too full & too slow.
Trips like: St Clair West to Spadina & King would also be much faster.
If GO RER adds stops for more subway like stop spacing and adjusts fares such that it's affordable for short trips, then great. We'll see I guess.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Ehlow:
Compared to the RL, GO RER/SmartTrack will do little to improve travel through the core.
Compared to the RL, GO RER/SmartTrack will do little to improve travel through the core.
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ehlow
Senior Member
What exactly does fare integration mean? Will my TTC monthly pass cover being able to use GO RER for example?
rbt
Senior Member
That's the way it works in parts of France, Germany and England. Of course, London has high pricing for the underground and has discounted rates for bus only trips (Underground is $16CAD for peak period one-way far across 9 zones). Heathrow to downtown is $9.10 CAD at peak period via the Picadilly line, off-peak is closer to $5.
Fare by distance people are pushing a flat price per km regardless of mode or operator.
I don't mind a premium for GO but it can't increase the trip cost by 300%. A 50% bump ($4 for a trip involving GO and TTC) might be reasonable to both customers and the operators.
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