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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans
- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
ssiguy2
Senior Member
This article simply states what I have being saying for years....................make use of existing GO rail corridors as rapid transit and, unlike GO, make it affordable with, at a minimum, fare integration. Sao Paulo has done this. They grade separated many of their commuter rail corridors like GO is going, electrified the lines, and voila......new subway corridors and they charge the same amount as any other transit.
This isn't rocket science in fact it is incredible basic............for the fare charged, let the passenger decide how they want to get there. If they have paid their fare to get from A to B then why the hell does it matter which technology they choice to do it in?
This isn't rocket science in fact it is incredible basic............for the fare charged, let the passenger decide how they want to get there. If they have paid their fare to get from A to B then why the hell does it matter which technology they choice to do it in?
salsa
Senior Member
Lol, did you read the article? It was a criticism of Tory's TIF financing scheme.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
SmartTrack:
-4x the cost of GO RER (Lakeshore)
-Less km of rapid transit than GO RER
-It has no funding plan
-It cancels the Relief Line
Why is Chow's campaign having such a tough time taking this proposal down? I have yet to see any serious effort by Chow to attack SmartTrack. I know she's a smart woman and I'm hoping that she's just waiting for the right moment to attack the proposal.
-4x the cost of GO RER (Lakeshore)
-Less km of rapid transit than GO RER
-It has no funding plan
-It cancels the Relief Line
Why is Chow's campaign having such a tough time taking this proposal down? I have yet to see any serious effort by Chow to attack SmartTrack. I know she's a smart woman and I'm hoping that she's just waiting for the right moment to attack the proposal.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Because Smartrax is something that people actually believe can get built.
The problem with talking about a DRL is that Toronto has been talking about a DRL since the 70s. It has never materialized and people see no reason why it would now. Even if Toronto miraculously got the money it would be at least a decade before it's completed. Smartrax is simply using the current rail corridors as public transit. Torontonians see that as actually being able to get built within their lifetimes. The DRL no longer has much traction because no one ever expects it to be built. It's simply been touted and promised too many times and now Torontonians view it as more of a political joke than a public transit initative that will ever see the light of day. After so many promises and absolutely no action except endless studies and reviews, it's become the Rodney Dangerfield of Toronto transit.
The problem with talking about a DRL is that Toronto has been talking about a DRL since the 70s. It has never materialized and people see no reason why it would now. Even if Toronto miraculously got the money it would be at least a decade before it's completed. Smartrax is simply using the current rail corridors as public transit. Torontonians see that as actually being able to get built within their lifetimes. The DRL no longer has much traction because no one ever expects it to be built. It's simply been touted and promised too many times and now Torontonians view it as more of a political joke than a public transit initative that will ever see the light of day. After so many promises and absolutely no action except endless studies and reviews, it's become the Rodney Dangerfield of Toronto transit.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Am I alone in thinking that Tory's campaign has engineered the SmartTrack proposal to fail if Tory were to be elected mayor? I don't believe for a second that Tory wants, or expects SmartTrack to be built. He's too smart to put forward a proposal with the amount of political and financing hurdles that SmartTrack has. Tory wants to win this election with the SmartTrack proposal and then kill it soon after he's in office.
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WislaHD
Superstar
I hope so, and also hope he will support Eglinton Connects immediately after election.
Cause she doesn't understand transit or infrastructural issues at all. Despite being the NDP transit critic, those aren't her areas of expertise and it shows whenever she speaks in public about transit, especially during debates. And I can tell you that is the impression Torontonians have of her, especially people in the center like myself, whom she needs to win over if she wants a shot at winning.
pstogios
Senior Member
Because SmartTrack=GO RER and Chow supports GO RER (while skirting directly endorsing it because this is a provincial initiative).
In every instance when criticizing SmartTrack, Chow says this is a provincial priority that will happen anyway. Just look at her latest transit map - it says "Planned GO Electrification" in the same color and approximately the same route as Tory's map shows SmartTrack (i.e. she doesn't show the other lines like the other GO lines that will be electrified because she doesn't need to).
And you know what? She's right. SmartTrack is essentially already a done deal because the province wants GO RER. That's what makes his proposal so dumb. If he framed SmartTrack as being the municipal portion, in terms of funding, of GO RER, but admitted it's a provincial plan, then it would make sense. Right now it's just redundant.
If Chow were to come out and say we don't want SmartTrack is like saying we don't want GO RER, which would be a slap in the province's face. Which is the last thing she should be doing.
This is not to say she should continue pushing her transit plan as is, or absolve her of her weak support for the RL. She needs to double-down on the RL and she isn't.
Electrify
Senior Member
Just to keep in mind, while the Stouffville line is to get all day service, it is unlikely that it will be "RER" quality. Much of the line is only single track. I'm guessing if Tory gets elected, part of the $8 billion will be to add extra tracks to this corridor.
Currently the only GO routes to get frequent service are Lake Shore and Kitchener. Anything else is part of Stage 3 of The Big Move, which is to be implemented sometime between when the human race destroys itself and never.
Currently the only GO routes to get frequent service are Lake Shore and Kitchener. Anything else is part of Stage 3 of The Big Move, which is to be implemented sometime between when the human race destroys itself and never.
WislaHD
Superstar
Yup, that would be the best move for OC to make. Fight fire with fire.
TOareaFan
Superstar
But the election promises from the people who won the election usurped all of that....they promised 15 minute, bi-directional, 7 days per week, electrified service to the end of ALL GO lines....within 10 years.
Rainforest
Senior Member
IMO, SmartTrack and GO RER are very different in scope, regardless of the route similarity.
GO RER is regional in scope, mostly catering to commuters from 905. There should be enhanced service within 416, but for a price above TTC's, and not frequent enough to provide a major relief for the core of TTC's subway system.
SmartTrack, on the other hand, is supposed to redirect riders within 416 in a major way, and relief the subways. Of course, the details proposed by John Tory so far: mostly surface running, and no branch in the Pape - Don Valley corridor; may not be consistent with that goal.
Should John Tory win the mayoral elections, I hope that his SmartTrack plan will be quickly studied, and those alignment / cost details clarified. I expect that after that, we will have to either accept a more heavily tunneled version at a higher cost, or revert to the RL subway plan.
GO RER is regional in scope, mostly catering to commuters from 905. There should be enhanced service within 416, but for a price above TTC's, and not frequent enough to provide a major relief for the core of TTC's subway system.
SmartTrack, on the other hand, is supposed to redirect riders within 416 in a major way, and relief the subways. Of course, the details proposed by John Tory so far: mostly surface running, and no branch in the Pape - Don Valley corridor; may not be consistent with that goal.
Should John Tory win the mayoral elections, I hope that his SmartTrack plan will be quickly studied, and those alignment / cost details clarified. I expect that after that, we will have to either accept a more heavily tunneled version at a higher cost, or revert to the RL subway plan.
Cooper
Senior Member
The thought has crossed my mind, too. I have a strong feelong that SmartTrack is more about differentiating JT in the campaign than actually building transit.
P
Paolo
Guest
smart track should go to pickering otherwise john "negative billing" tory wont get my vote
dowlingm
Senior Member
The reality is that because of his status as a front runner anything Tory says is assumed on the level unless someone does the spadework to prove otherwise. He has the cash to have good quality well researched policy coming out his ears, but instead he spends it on Nick Kouvalis. Same with Chow's campaign, one of whose proxies basically said of criticism of their bus plan "well, at least our mistakes cost less than Tory's"