2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[nfitz]

Should we also presume the province would get Chow or Soknacki in line if they tried to cancel the B-D extension?

There's this little problem that the province has a signed agreement with the city to build LRT. There is been no signed agreement with the city to fund a subway - just verbal promises.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Because SmartTrack doesn't get you to McCowan and Scarborough Centre. How do you get from those areas to SmartTrack?

And why do you think everyone at Kennedy is heading downtown, way south of Front Street? I ride the Danforth subway in AM rush hour. A LOT of people get off between Kennedy and Sherbourne. A lot get on Yonge northbound. A lot don't get off at Yonge. And most people on Yonge southbound get off before King.

Remember that the Yonge station with the most AM arrivals is Dundas. Start checking the travel times ... the subway is just as fast to get to Dundas as GO from Kennedy - and much more frequent. Heck, if they DO build a DRL, there'd be even more reason to take the subway over GO given the faster travel times on that line (with less stations).

STC is at McCowan and Ellesmere. You can't walk across the street to the mall now? Come on.

 

[nfitz]

STC is at McCowan and Ellesmere. You can't walk across the street to the mall now? Come on.

If you don't build both the subway, and only build SmartTrak what does walking across the street to the Mall get you? They'll neither be SRT or subway to go to.

Oh wait ... are you assuming that if you build SmartTrak, you instead convert the SRT to LRT?

 

[salsa]

Last time I checked, there was no plan yet. They just released a plan to develop a plan. At least one councillor has suggested an Eglinton/Brimely/Danforth station. And you start looking at the map, and how many buses go through that intersection, then it's almost inevitable. Presumably it will fall out during the planning process.

So we might get one extra station. Maybe. Assuming the city wants to take on even more debt. Therefore the subway and smart track are not parallel anymore? To be honest, I'm not too convinced about the need for a station there. While there are "many buses" that go through that intersection, they already connect to Kennedy station just down the street, where there's also a GO station and the future crosstown. I'm not keen on removing bus routes from a major mobility hub by terminating them at a new station at Brimley. This area would be better served by the Malvern LRT from the Transit City plan, in my opinion.

No they won't. The Smart Track calls for station on Ellesmere. There are no plans for that.

Not sure where you are going with this. Do you suggest that the by electrifying GO and adding stations, that we can eliminate service to Scarborough Centre.

The subway will not have the ridership to justify it. I suggest going back the original LRT plan, which was a better plan to begin with since it will also serve north-eastern scarborough rather than just STC.

 

[ssiguy2]

There is a HUGE difference between Tory's surface subways and GO Electriication and it's called fares.

GO can electrify to it's heart's content but it still won't do Torontonians any good if they can't afford to take it. Tory's plan is a huge subway expansion using current infrastructure and you will be able to use your TTC pass. All GO electrification does is serve 905ers.

Most people who take the TTC are working/low income just like every other transit system on the planet and they can't afford $20/day for their commute from one part of the city to the other. Tory understands that and Chow doesn't as she thinks that everyone enjoys moving 10km/hr on a stinking bus or that everyone can just bike just like her. The idea that not everyone lives within 10 blocks of their workplace doesn't seem to have crossed her mind to say nothing of the weather.

 

[nfitz]

So we might get one extra station. Maybe. Assuming the city wants even more debt to pay for it. ... To be honest, I'm not too convinced about the need for a station there

Let's see what the studies say about the demand. On the Yonge extension, they had planned 6 stations, and when it was clear from the studies that there wasn't much ridership at Old Orchard, it got dropped.

The subway will not have the ridership to justify it. I suggest going back the original LRT plan, which was a better plan to begin with since it will also serve north-eastern scarborough rather than just STC.

That works for me. Though having GO stations and LRT stations at Ellesmere, Lawrence West, AND Kennedy seems like overkill.

There is a HUGE difference between Tory's surface subways and GO Electriication and it's called fares.

Metrolinx has already talked about fare integration. If they do this, then there's no difference.

 

[salsa]

Let's see what the studies say about the demand. On the Yonge extension, they had planned 6 stations, and when it was clear from the studies that there wasn't much ridership at Old Orchard, it got dropped.

I agree.

That works for me. Though having GO stations and LRT stations at Ellesmere, Lawrence West, AND Kennedy seems like overkill.

The LRT was not perfect of course, and while there would be some duplicate stations, the two transit lines serve different purposes. GO is there to quickly funnel commuters downtown. The LRT provides finer grained local service for completely different parts of Scarborough. People need to be able to use both whenever necessary.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Metrolinx has already talked about fare integration. If they do this, then there's no difference.

Are they going to work on implementing this?

 

[nfitz]

Are they going to work on implementing this?

The Liberals said they'd do it during the election. It will take some pressure. Presumably it goes nowhere until after the municipal election.

Metrolinx presented a plan back in December - http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...dMtg_GTHA_Fare_and_Service_Integration_EN.pdf

At the time they targeted Fall 2015 to have a plan out.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Didn't know about that.

Does this mean that we'll be able to pay a fare on TTC and transfer to GO with no extra fare or a reduced fare?

I'm a little concerned about how this (and SmartTrack) may affect ridership on the Line 2 extension.

 

[nfitz]

Does this mean that we'll be able to pay a fare on TTC and transfer to GO with no extra fare or a reduced fare?

That's the million $ question.

I'd guess that the best you could hope for, is that the total fare wouldn't exceed the GO fare between the 2 zones. It's hard to see how GO could bring their fares down to the TTC level.

It's not that simple though. What about transfer to Mississagua? What about transfer through 3 different systems? I could easily take TTC to GO to Mississauga or Oakville to finish a trip ... in fact I have.

 

[WislaHD]

SmartTrack should be renamed to Dumbtrack.

I don't see how this plan will prove popular to Toronto residents. The 905 will like it definitely, but they can't vote in Toronto's election. Instead, it appears as if everyone in Toronto who would've benefited from the DRL, and after the provincial election are expecting a DRL, are getting a half-arsed GO electrification from Tory instead. I predict SmartTrack will backfire on Tory's campaign.

 

[Solid Snake]

That's the million $ question.

I'd guess that the best you could hope for, is that the total fare wouldn't exceed the GO fare between the 2 zones. It's hard to see how GO could bring their fares down to the TTC level.

It's not that simple though. What about transfer to Mississagua? What about transfer through 3 different systems? I could easily take TTC to GO to Mississauga or Oakville to finish a trip ... in fact I have.

I'm pretty sure you have to tap your presto card when exiting. If you use the card on the TTC system and get to Mississauga by train, you have to tap out in Mississauga.

In London, the barriers don't allow you to leave the tube without taping out the proper fare. If I take the subway at Piccadilly Circus (Zone 1 fare) and want to go to the docklands (Zone 3 I think), you can't leave the system unless you have a proof of payment that you paid a fare 3 fee at the start of your journey...forcing you to pay a fare 3 to leave the system. Perhaps that could be a solution that Metrolinx could explore.

 

[BurlOak]

The subway will not have the ridership to justify it. I suggest going back the original LRT plan, which was a better plan to begin with since it will also serve north-eastern scarborough rather than just STC.

• If the SRT could be connected to the Eglinton Crosstown LRT - this would be far better than having frequent integrated GO plus a B-D subway extension (it would have been nice if the Sheppard/GO station was shown).
• The alternative is to connect the Eglinton Crosstown LRT with the Malvern LRT - but I believe there are no provisions for this because the LRT is close to being at grade when it crosses GO.
• So because we refuse to modify the Transit City LRT plan - we are probably going to wind up with the very expensive, and pretty redundant, B-D subway extension.

SmartTrack should be renamed to Dumbtrack.

I don't see how this plan will prove popular to Toronto residents. The 905 will like it definitely, but they can't vote in Toronto's election. Instead, it appears as if everyone in Toronto who would've benefited from the DRL, and after the provincial election are expecting a DRL, are getting a half-arsed GO electrification from Tory instead. I predict SmartTrack will backfire on Tory's campaign.

The decision to not build the DRL was made when Eglinton was put in the median from Kennedy to DVP and through Leslie. We will have a few years of discussion and wind up killing the DRL and building Tory's SmartTrack (the East part). If Tory is elected, it will actually be called SmartTrack - if Chow is elected, it will be called GO.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Last time I checked, there was no plan yet. They just released a plan to develop a plan. At least one councillor has suggested an Eglinton/Brimely/Danforth station. And you start looking at the map, and how many buses go through that intersection, then it's almost inevitable. Presumably it will fall out during the planning process.

.

So we might get one extra station. Maybe. Assuming the city wants to take on even more debt. Therefore the subway and smart track are not parallel anymore? To be honest, I'm not too convinced about the need for a station there. While there are "many buses" that go through that intersection, they already connect to Kennedy station just down the street, where there's also a GO station and the future crosstown. I'm not keen on removing bus routes from a major mobility hub by terminating them at a new station at Brimley. This area would be better served by the Malvern LRT from the Transit City plan, in my opinion.

The subway will not have the ridership to justify it. I suggest going back the original LRT plan, which was a better plan to begin with since it will also serve north-eastern scarborough rather than just STC.

There will have to be a station at Brimley, but I can see them making the mistake of not having one, because it's Toronto. Kennedy to Lawrence East is too far (4km) not to have a station. Also the SRT will serve more then west of McCowan, something nether Sheppard East or Bloor McCowan will do.