innsertnamehere
Superstar
Yet continue support for Sheppard, finch, Eglinton, hurontario, Hamilton, Waterloo, and Ottawa.
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2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans
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denfromoakvillemilton
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So much so that they had to be prodded by the media to name Finch and Sheppard as LRT projects.
nfitz
Superstar
Your stretching things a bit. Why are you pro-NDP types trying to twist reality so desperately?
Rainforest
Senior Member
A substantial LRT network can be built gradually, not necessarily as a part of a single grand plan.
A city-wide plan has its appeal, but in practice, smaller plans made of 1 or 2 projects seem to have a better chance of getting built.
denfromoakvillemilton
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I posted the damn thing at the beginning of the thread. Why would people have to ask if Finch and Sheppard are LRT projects, again?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
What!? Of course not. I'm not that stupid. Of course the NDP won't win every riding in Toronto. Anyone who thinks that needs to get their head checked.
"members of pro LRT parties" = members of ONDP or LPO.
And yes, I am calling the Liberals pro LRT. They're implementing the largest LRT plan on this side of the world. If that''s not being pro-LRT then I don't know what is.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I love this logic. Even though the Liberals are implementing the largest LRT plan on this side of the plane, they're not pro-LRT because wouldn't say the word "LRT" when talking about finch and sheppard.
W. K. Lis
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They're avoiding the acronym LRT because some members of the public confuse LRT with streetcars. Both Liberals and NDP try to use the phrase "rapid transit" instead of LRT.
denfromoakvillemilton
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That's not a good reason WK. People confuse it with streetcars, because it's in grade on the surface. The people can handle the truth. Just say LRT.
GenerationW
Senior Member
Of course it isn't. Supporting nothing but LRTs, though, is dead. We'll never again have a pro-LRT mayor with a comprehensive LRT plan that gets pretty much rubber-stamped by a relatively docile Council and, most important, have billions in funding fall in the city's lap.
Your provincial party is hardly monolithic. The newest Toronto MPP just went from prominent LRT advocate to self-proclaimed subway champion, and the Scarborough Liberal caucus is actively pushing for a Sheppard extension.
denfromoakvillemilton
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Yes we will. When Scarborough gets it's one (two subway), maybe Eglinton becomes a real subway but after that, who else will want it? Besides the DRL. MAYBE we can justify bringing about Sheppard to Hwy 400. MAYBE, I would not.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
All forms of transit can be rapid transit................buses, streetcars, LRT, monorails, SkyTrain, subways, commuter rail. Rapid transit does not mean it has to be grade separated.
Rapid transit has far more to do with the number of stations, ROW, stop lights, POP etc. The issue with TC was not the LRT itself but how it was being implemented. Calgary and Edmonton LRT is truly rapid yet is not grade separated as is Ottawa's & Winnipeg's Transitway. TC Sheppard and Finch have far too many stops and red lights to contend with to being considered rapid. The added problem is that when designing LRT down roadways the vehicles also have to abide by the road speed limit which is at most 60km/hr.
Only a significant reduction in travel times will entice anyone to leave their cars at home and take transit and TC never fit the bill. Eglinton LRT is the exception but the whole point of LRT {as Miller liked to point out} is that it is an affordable alternative to subways but Eglinton is coming in with high subway prices but will have the lowest capacity of any other tunneled system such as Metro/subway, SkyTrain, or Monorail.
Rapid transit has far more to do with the number of stations, ROW, stop lights, POP etc. The issue with TC was not the LRT itself but how it was being implemented. Calgary and Edmonton LRT is truly rapid yet is not grade separated as is Ottawa's & Winnipeg's Transitway. TC Sheppard and Finch have far too many stops and red lights to contend with to being considered rapid. The added problem is that when designing LRT down roadways the vehicles also have to abide by the road speed limit which is at most 60km/hr.
Only a significant reduction in travel times will entice anyone to leave their cars at home and take transit and TC never fit the bill. Eglinton LRT is the exception but the whole point of LRT {as Miller liked to point out} is that it is an affordable alternative to subways but Eglinton is coming in with high subway prices but will have the lowest capacity of any other tunneled system such as Metro/subway, SkyTrain, or Monorail.
M II A II R II K
Senior Member
Ontario PC platform gets low grade for transit from Pembina Institute
Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario...grade_for_transit_from_pembina_institute.html
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The Ontario PCs received a low grade when it comes to fighting regional gridlock, in Pembina’s pre-election analysis of the four provincial parties’ transit platforms.
- If Pembina were writing its own transit platform, it would probably look a lot like the Green Party’s plan. It is the only party to offer ideas for new revenue sources that could be invested in transit — including road pricing that could also persuade motorists to leave the car at home, said Cherise Burda, who helped write the report called, “Who’s ready to fight traffic with transit?â€
- It evaluates the platforms based on their gridlock-fighting potential, cost-effectiveness and their ability to relieve traffic congestion, in the short term and region-wide. While all the parties are focused on big-ticket, long-term regional projects such as Toronto’s downtown relief line and expanded GO service, there’s been less discussion at the provincial level about measures that would make commuting easier right now, said Burda.
- “We’re all suffering now. We need to get more buses on the road, we need to get more (express) buses,†she said. The Green Party’s platform is built to do that because, in addition to dedicating $2 billion annually to new projects, it allocates $1 billion a year to operating municipal transit systems. It is also committed to road pricing and cycling improvements — measures that could help entice more people out of their cars, said Burda.
- The American experience with LRTs shows why it’s so critical to get motorists out of their cars, said Burda. Building new transit isn’t enough to persuade drivers to ride it. Motorists tend to view driving as free because the cost of owning and fueling a car is already part of their budget. Switching to transit feels like an added cost. People need to be convinced that transit will save them money and free up time for reading or work.
- “American experts are recognizing that unless you put in mode-shift-based road pricing revenue tools you’re not going to raise the money you need to keep building out the transit, and you’re not going to move people’s behaviour — and that’s what’s really critical,†she said.
- The Conservative plan to focus on extending the Sheppard subway rather than building an LRT, would cost about $1 billion more than the Liberal and NDP commitments in the Metrolinx Big Move plan, said Pembina. The PC platform would result in only about 20 kilometres of new transit lines rather than the 142 kilometres prescribed by Metrolinx.
.....
Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario...grade_for_transit_from_pembina_institute.html
.....
The Ontario PCs received a low grade when it comes to fighting regional gridlock, in Pembina’s pre-election analysis of the four provincial parties’ transit platforms.
- If Pembina were writing its own transit platform, it would probably look a lot like the Green Party’s plan. It is the only party to offer ideas for new revenue sources that could be invested in transit — including road pricing that could also persuade motorists to leave the car at home, said Cherise Burda, who helped write the report called, “Who’s ready to fight traffic with transit?â€
- It evaluates the platforms based on their gridlock-fighting potential, cost-effectiveness and their ability to relieve traffic congestion, in the short term and region-wide. While all the parties are focused on big-ticket, long-term regional projects such as Toronto’s downtown relief line and expanded GO service, there’s been less discussion at the provincial level about measures that would make commuting easier right now, said Burda.
- “We’re all suffering now. We need to get more buses on the road, we need to get more (express) buses,†she said. The Green Party’s platform is built to do that because, in addition to dedicating $2 billion annually to new projects, it allocates $1 billion a year to operating municipal transit systems. It is also committed to road pricing and cycling improvements — measures that could help entice more people out of their cars, said Burda.
- The American experience with LRTs shows why it’s so critical to get motorists out of their cars, said Burda. Building new transit isn’t enough to persuade drivers to ride it. Motorists tend to view driving as free because the cost of owning and fueling a car is already part of their budget. Switching to transit feels like an added cost. People need to be convinced that transit will save them money and free up time for reading or work.
- “American experts are recognizing that unless you put in mode-shift-based road pricing revenue tools you’re not going to raise the money you need to keep building out the transit, and you’re not going to move people’s behaviour — and that’s what’s really critical,†she said.
- The Conservative plan to focus on extending the Sheppard subway rather than building an LRT, would cost about $1 billion more than the Liberal and NDP commitments in the Metrolinx Big Move plan, said Pembina. The PC platform would result in only about 20 kilometres of new transit lines rather than the 142 kilometres prescribed by Metrolinx.
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WislaHD
Superstar
Cite this for me please. I've only heard about them being pro-SELRT.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
The Hamilton liberals (tough they won't win) are against the Hamilton LRT.
The Scarborough caucus of liberals also aren't happy about LRTs, and that is why they made the switch to the Scarborough subway. They looked into what could be cheaply converted to subway, and found that the bloor danforth line could go to STC for the same price as the LRT, and went with that. Council then went crazy and added $1.5 billion to the price tag to get to where we are today.
Short of someone donating several billion, Sheppard will not be built as a subway. The liberals don't have the money to do so, it's all tied up in other projects.
The Scarborough caucus of liberals also aren't happy about LRTs, and that is why they made the switch to the Scarborough subway. They looked into what could be cheaply converted to subway, and found that the bloor danforth line could go to STC for the same price as the LRT, and went with that. Council then went crazy and added $1.5 billion to the price tag to get to where we are today.
Short of someone donating several billion, Sheppard will not be built as a subway. The liberals don't have the money to do so, it's all tied up in other projects.