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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

Bordercollie said:
But they need to exchange cars with CP. Would they bring the cars to North Bay? And then CP would take it to Toronto? All you need is a siding with road access and a one of these. https://images.app.goo.gl/6NGujh4w8r4tGD5i8
Click to expand...
That is what is being done in Cochrane. The question was about not having to truck them to Cochrane to be loaded in the well cars to go to Moosonee If it were CP, most likely it would interchange in Sudbury with OVR.
 
micheal_can said:
I thought the intermodal yards such as the Macmillan Yard for CN were part of the Port of Toronto.
Click to expand...

The Port of Toronto is at Toronto harbour and operated by Ports Toronto (Toronto Port Authority). MacMillan yard is owned and operated by CN. It's not their main Toronto IM terminal - that's in Brampton.

With such a small fleet of well cars, I'm not sure if ONR is planning to operate them off their network.
 
lenaitch said:
The Port of Toronto is at Toronto harbour and operated by Ports Toronto (Toronto Port Authority). MacMillan yard is owned and operated by CN. It's not their main Toronto IM terminal - that's in Brampton.
Click to expand...
Some places, like Vancouver, the Port includes many rail yards.
lenaitch said:
With such a small fleet of well cars, I'm not sure if ONR is planning to operate them off their network.
Click to expand...
I doubt they will. Someone else asked why they don't load them elsewhere.
 
MegaMax said:
What is that even supposed to mean? "Rite of passage" is a event in growing up, like getting a driving learner's permit, or a first part time job, or a Bar Mitzvah. What is a "right of passage", anyway?



Maybe they should get a monorail.

The cost of living isn't necessarily cheaper in the North vs. the GTA, you know.
Click to expand...
I think that it's a shame that we have rail corridors from Toronto to the North and they are hardly used. The Northlander will be returning up the Bala Sub but the Newmarket Sub through towns like Party Sound (Basically the 400 corridor) are only served by the Canadian to Sudbury. We should have daily train service from Sudbury to Toronto as well as North Bay.
 
Bordercollie said:
I think that it's a shame that we have rail corridors from Toronto to the North and they are hardly used. The Northlander will be returning up the Bala Sub but the Newmarket Sub through towns like Party Sound (Basically the 400 corridor) are only served by the Canadian to Sudbury. We should have daily train service from Sudbury to Toronto as well as North Bay.
Click to expand...
You got the subs switched. The Bala Sub goes to Sudbury.
 
Government or corporate willingness aside, there needs to be a consideration of potential ridership; how many people 'there' would likely travel to 'here' to make it worthwhile. At least the future Northlander will go through several Muskoka towns and passes through a string of population centres north of North Bay ending in the city of Timmins (it was even better when it ran on the lower Newmarket sub.). Even at that some argue that it won't be viable without heavy subsidy. One problem with the CP corridor is it doesn't involve a lot of population, both enroute and beyond Sudbury with the exception of the city itself. Parry Sound is about 6,000. Some would argue Bolton and Alliston, but that would depend on timings that commuter-friendly. There are no station facilities on the CP except Parry Sound (one n/b and one s/b) and Sudbury.
 
lenaitch said:
Government or corporate willingness aside, there needs to be a consideration of potential ridership; how many people 'there' would likely travel to 'here' to make it worthwhile. At least the future Northlander will go through several Muskoka towns and passes through a string of population centres north of North Bay ending in the city of Timmins (it was even better when it ran on the lower Newmarket sub.). Even at that some argue that it won't be viable without heavy subsidy. One problem with the CP corridor is it doesn't involve a lot of population, both enroute and beyond Sudbury with the exception of the city itself. Parry Sound is about 6,000. Some would argue Bolton and Alliston, but that would depend on timings that commuter-friendly. There are no station facilities on the CP except Parry Sound (one n/b and one s/b) and Sudbury.
Click to expand...
To "copy" the Northlander, why not go to SSM? Between SSM and Sudbury there are lots of potential for ridership. Plus, SSM is the second largest cityin NE Ontario and Sudbury is the largest city in Northern ON. The only real problem would be the work needed on the HCR for passenger service. Mind you, since every few years they threaten to close if the government doesn't give them money for track maintenance, at least this way, the government has another reason to spent it.
 
I think we've been down the 'passenger trains to everywhere' discussion before. 'Potential ridership' needs to have some kind of analysis of travel demographics, beyond simple population; i.e. how many people do/would/need to travel between 'there' and 'here' - by train. Business travellers will likely fly, so you're down to residents. It may come as a surprise to many people but people outside of the GTA live complete and fulfilling lives without the need to go there. As mentioned, there are many who are unconvinced the even the reconstituted Northlander will be viable.

You might be right, a SSM-Sudbury-Toronto train might be popular. I'm not convinced.
 
lenaitch said:
I think we've been down the 'passenger trains to everywhere' discussion before. 'Potential ridership' needs to have some kind of analysis of travel demographics, beyond simple population; i.e. how many people do/would/need to travel between 'there' and 'here' - by train. Business travellers will likely fly, so you're down to residents. It may come as a surprise to many people but people outside of the GTA live complete and fulfilling lives without the need to go there. As mentioned, there are many who are unconvinced the even the reconstituted Northlander will be viable.

You might be right, a SSM-Sudbury-Toronto train might be popular. I'm not convinced.
Click to expand...
Take a look at the traffic data on 11 from Timmins to Washago. Now look at 17 from SSM to Sudbury and 69/400 to Parry Sound
Caution, long post..


11
.27,900 is the highest,
2500 is the lowest, between the Tri towns and Kir

11SIMCOE RD 169 IC 152 GRAVENHURST S LTS‐SEVERN R BR 2.4 24,300
11 GRAVENHURST S LTS‐SEVERN R BR N JCT MUSKOKA RD 169 (BETHUNE DR) 15.8 24,300
11 N JCT MUSKOKA RD 169 (BETHUNE DR) MUSKOKA RD 41/6 IC 5.0 17,200
11 MUSKOKA RD 41/6 IC HWY 118 (E) ‐ MUSKOKA RD 118 IC 182 6.8 25,400
11 HWY 118 (E) ‐ MUSKOKA RD 118 IC 182 MUSKOKA RD 37‐CEDAR LANE (W) FREDRICK ST (E) 1.9 18,600
11 MUSKOKA RD 37‐CEDAR LANE (W) FREDRICK ST (E) TAYLOR RD IC‐MUSKOKA RD 42 4.7 14,800
11 TAYLOR RD IC‐MUSKOKA RD 42 MUSKOKA RD 117 IC (E) CEDAR LANE (W) 3.9 21,000
11 MUSKOKA RD 117 IC (E) CEDAR LANE (W) HWY 141 IC(W) MUSKOKA RD 10‐PORT SIDNEY RD(E) 14.3 17,400
11 HWY 141 IC(W) MUSKOKA RD 10‐PORT SIDNEY RD(E) S JCT MUSKOKA RD 3 IC 12.5 19,700
11 S JCT MUSKOKA RD 3 IC MUSKOKA RD 2 IC 2.3 18,200
11 MUSKOKA RD 2 IC HWY 60‐IC‐HUNTSVILLE 1.7 11,000
11 HWY 60‐IC‐HUNTSVILLE N JCT MUSKOKA RD 3 IC 3.2 14,700
11 N JCT MUSKOKA RD 3 IC NORTH WASEOSA LK RD (W)/ROCKHAVEN RD(E) IC UP 4.8 14,900
11 NORTH WASEOSA LK RD (W)/ROCKHAVEN RD(E) IC UP S JCT SEC HWY 592(E)/NOVAR RD(W) IC UP 3.9 15,800
11 S JCT SEC HWY 592(E)/NOVAR RD(W) IC UP FERN GLEN RD(W) ‐ SCOTIA RD(E) 8.9 10,200
11 FERN GLEN RD(W) ‐ SCOTIA RD(E) SEC HWY 518 ‐ DEER LK RD(E) IC 4.2 10,000
11 SEC HWY 518 ‐ DEER LK RD(E) IC N JCT SUNSET PASS DR/SEC HWY592(E)GRAVEL RD(W 1.7 8,750
11 N JCT SUNSET PASS DR/SEC HWY592(E)GRAVEL RD(W KATRINE RD (HWY 7188) OP 2.8 9,550
11 KATRINE RD (HWY 7188) OP SEC HWY 520‐FERGUSON RD (W) 4.5 8,300
11 SEC HWY 520‐FERGUSON RD (W) ONTARIO ST(7162)ARMOUR TWP (E) 3.4 4,850
11 ONTARIO ST(7162)ARMOUR TWP (E) HWY 124 IC 276 UP 15.9 8,050
11 HWY 124 IC 276 UP BOUNDARY/MOUNTAINVIEW RD IC 282 6.8 7,600
11 BOUNDARY/MOUNTAINVIEW RD IC 282 HWY 124 / HWY 11 NORTH IC 5.5 7,450
11 HWY 124 / HWY 11 NORTH IC GOREVILLE RD/SUMMIT RD LAURIER TWP IC 5.0 9,100
11 GOREVILLE RD/SUMMIT RD LAURIER TWP IC GOREVILLE RD/SUMMIT RD LAURIER TWP IC 7.4 7,200
11 GOREVILLE RD/SUMMIT RD LAURIER TWP IC HWY 522/MCFADDEN LINE IC 7.4 7,200
11 HWY 522/MCFADDEN LINE IC HWY 522/MCFADDEN LINE IC 2.4 7,050
11 HWY 522/MCFADDEN LINE IC SEC HWY 522 2.4 7,050
11 SEC HWY 522 MCGILLVRAY CK (NB & SB) 10.8 8,900
11 MCGILLVRAY CK (NB & SB) SEC HWY 534(W)CLARK ST(E) IC UP 1.9 8,400
11 SEC HWY 534(W)CLARK ST(E) IC UP MCCHARLES LINE ‐ MAIN ST 2.5 8,650
11 MCCHARLES LINE ‐ MAIN ST SEC HWY 654 IC(W)LK NOSBONSING RD(E) 10.5 9,750
11 SEC HWY 654 IC(W)LK NOSBONSING RD(E) HWY 11B(LAKESHORE DR)IC(W)DUPONT RD(E) 9.1 11,600
11 HWY 11B(LAKESHORE DR)IC(W)DUPONT RD(E) S JCT HWY 17‐IC 5.7 19,800
11 S JCT HWY 17‐IC SEYMOUR ST 0.5 26,500
11 SEYMOUR ST HWY 17B(FISHER ST)W‐NORTHGATE SQ ENT(E) 0.5 26,800
11 HWY 17B(FISHER ST)W‐NORTHGATE SQ ENT(E) HWY 63(TROUT LK RD)E‐CASSELLS ST(W) 0.6 23,700
11 HWY 63(TROUT LK RD)E‐CASSELLS ST(W) O'BRIEN ST 1.5 27,200
11 O'BRIEN ST N JCT HWYS 17/11B(ALGONQUIN AV) 0.6 21,300
11 N JCT HWYS 17/11B(ALGONQUIN AV) SHERRIFF AV(E) 0.2 27,900
11 SHERRIFF AV(E) AIRPORT RD(E) MCKEOWN AV(W) 0.1 22,300
11 AIRPORT RD(E) MCKEOWN AV(W) CEDAR HEIGHTS RD 1.5 8,000
11 CEDAR HEIGHTS RD COOK'S MILL RD(W)ROY DR(E) 6.4 7,300
11 COOK'S MILL RD(W)ROY DR(E) PARKWOOD VILLA ENT(W) 3.1 3,850
11 PARKWOOD VILLA ENT(W) HWY 64(W) 45.4 3,500
11 HWY 64(W) LAKESHORE DR (W) 38.6 3,400
11 LAKESHORE DR (W) LATCHFORD S LTS 32.4 4,500
11 LATCHFORD S LTS S JCT HWY 11B(E) 8.4 5,750
11 S JCT HWY 11B(E) SEC HWY 558 9.5 6,200
11 SEC HWY 558 S JCT HWY 65 IC ‐ WHITEWOOD AVE(E) 6.7 4,950
11 S JCT HWY 65 IC ‐ WHITEWOOD AVE(E) N JCT HWY 65 AND HWY 11 2.7 8,500
11 N JCT HWY 65 AND HWY 11 ROLAND RD(E) 1.1 14,900
11 ROLAND RD(E) S JCT SEC HWY 569(N)HILLIARDTOWN RD(E) 10.5 7,150
11 S JCT SEC HWY 569(N)HILLIARDTOWN RD(E) SEC HWY 562(W)GRAVEL RD(E) 6.0 7,000
11 SEC HWY 562(W)GRAVEL RD(E) SEC HWY 571(W) 8.9 5,250
11 SEC HWY 571(W) N JCT SEC HWY 569(E)(TO SEC HWY 624) 8.7 4,900
11 N JCT SEC HWY 569(E)(TO SEC HWY 624) SEC HWY 560(W)9TH ST(E) 6.2 5,700
11 SEC HWY 560(W)9TH ST(E) HWY 112(E) 18.6 4,450
11 HWY 112(E) HWY 66 19.0 2,500
11 HWY 66 SEC HWY 568(E) 1.0 4,350
11 SEC HWY 568(E) SEC HWY 570(E) 13.9 4,200
11 SEC HWY 570(E) TIMISKAMING‐COCHRANE DIST BDY 7.4 3,000
11 TIMISKAMING‐COCHRANE DIST BDY SEC HWY 572(E) 20.2 3,400
11 SEC HWY 572(E) E JCT HWY 101‐4TH AV 14.5 3,250
11 E JCT HWY 101‐4TH AV W JCT HWY 101(W) 6.4 4,800

2 posts...
 
17
12,800 is the highest in Sudbury
3,600 is the lowest near Blind River.

17 HWY 69 IC OP (E & WBL) SUDBURY RD 80‐LONG LAKE ROAD 3.3 7,950
17 SUDBURY RD 80‐LONG LAKE ROAD FIELDING RD(N)KANTOLA RD(S) 8.0 12,800
17 FIELDING RD(N)KANTOLA RD(S) SUDBURY ROAD 55 IC UP 1.8 12,500
17 SUDBURY ROAD 55 IC UP HWY 144 UP IC 5.0 8,900
17 HWY 144 UP IC W JCT SUDBURY REG RD 55 14.6 7,300
17 W JCT SUDBURY REG RD 55 FAIRBANKS LAKE RD (N) DEN/LOU RD (S) 1.8 9,450
17 FAIRBANKS LAKE RD (N) DEN/LOU RD (S) SMITH ST(S)HWY 7082(N) 18.1 8,400
17 SMITH ST(S)HWY 7082(N) HWY 6(TO ESPANOLA) 16.1 9,850
17 HWY 6(TO ESPANOLA) WEBBWOOD E LTS 7.9 6,650
17 WEBBWOOD E LTS AUX SABLE R BR 17.2 6,000
17 AUX SABLE R BR SEC HWY 553‐IMPERIAL ST‐MASSEY 0.5 6,950
17 SEC HWY 553‐IMPERIAL ST‐MASSEY MASSEY W LTS 11.4 5,700
17 MASSEY W LTS JOHN ST‐ SPANISH TRUNK RD (S) 9.9 4,900
17 JOHN ST‐ SPANISH TRUNK RD (S) IMPERIAL RD‐CUTLER 11.2 4,750
17 IMPERIAL RD‐CUTLER HWY 108‐ELLIOT LAKE RD 7.2 5,050
17 HWY 108‐ELLIOT LAKE RD E JCT SEC HWY 538 14.5 4,100
17 E JCT SEC HWY 538 W JCT SEC HWY 538 (S) 4.8 4,650
17 W JCT SEC HWY 538 (S) BLIND RIVER E LTS ‐ START OF NA 8.6 4,650
17 BLIND RIVER E LTS ‐ START OF NA BLIND RIVER W LTS ‐ END OF NA 4.0
17 BLIND RIVER W LTS ‐ END OF NA DEAN LAKE RD 16.9 4,050
17 DEAN LAKE RD SEC HWY 546 7.0 3,600
17 SEC HWY 546 HWY 129‐WHARNCLIFFE RD 27.3 3,950
17 HWY 129‐WHARNCLIFFE RD LAKE ST(S) 1.9 4,850
17 LAKE ST(S) BRUCE MINES E LTS‐PLUMMER ADD'L TWP SIGN 16.6 5,650
17 BRUCE MINES E LTS‐PLUMMER ADD'L TWP SIGN E JCT SEC HWY 638‐RICHARDSON ST‐BRUCE MINES 0.9 5,550
17 E JCT SEC HWY 638‐RICHARDSON ST‐BRUCE MINES BRUCE MINES W LTS 1.5 5,700
17 BRUCE MINES W LTS GORDON LAKE RD‐JOHNSON TWP 8.1 5,550
17 GORDON LAKE RD‐JOHNSON TWP SEC HWY 548 (S) 10.0 5,400
17 SEC HWY 548 (S) HWY 17B (W) ‐ BAR RIVER RD (E&W) 15.4 5,850
17 HWY 17B (W) ‐ BAR RIVER RD (E&W) EAST JCT HWY 638/17 5.1 5,550
17 EAST JCT HWY 638/17 LOWER ECHO RIVER 2.9 6,550
17 LOWER ECHO RIVER ECHO BAY RIVER ROAD UP 3.8 6,800
17 ECHO BAY RIVER ROAD UP NOONDAY RD (N) 4.0 6,300
17 NOONDAY RD (N) GARDEN RIVER BR 0.7 6,700
17 GARDEN RIVER BR SYRETTE LAKE ROAD 3.6 6,250
17 SYRETTE LAKE ROAD BELLEAU LAKE ROAD 1.9 6,200
17 BELLEAU LAKE ROAD S.S MARIE E LTS ‐ START OF NA 3.0 7,100
 
69

11,000 is the highest near Sudbury
6050 is the lowest near Pointe Au Baril

69 END OF HWY 400 (1.84 KM NORTH OF HWY 559) HWY 559 / SHEBESHEKONG RD IC 14.9 7,900
69 HWY 559 / SHEBESHEKONG RD IC SEC HWY 644(W)N ARCHIPELAGO TWP 9.1 7,500
69 SEC HWY 644(W)N ARCHIPELAGO TWP S JCT SEC HWY 529(W)N ARCHIPELAGO TWP 1.9 6,400
69 S JCT SEC HWY 529(W)N ARCHIPELAGO TWP N JCT SEC HWY 529(W)MAGNETAWAN I R 1 BDY 20.0 7,250
69 N JCT SEC HWY 529(W)MAGNETAWAN I R 1 BDY SEC HWY 526(W)HENVEY TWP 5.2 7,000
69 SEC HWY 526(W)HENVEY TWP SEC HWY 522(E)MOWAT TWP 12.8 7,200
69 SEC HWY 522(E)MOWAT TWP SEC HWY 607(E)BIGWOOD TWP 14.6 6,050
69 SEC HWY 607(E)BIGWOOD TWP HWY 64(E) GRAVEL RD(W) 9.4 6,600
69 HWY 64(E) GRAVEL RD(W) SEC HEY 637 (W)SERVOS TWP 17.2 7,550
69 SEC HEY 637 (W)SERVOS TWP MTO Inspection Station 6.0 7,550
69 MTO Inspection Station NELSON RD IC UNDERPASS 5.4 7,550
69 NELSON RD IC UNDERPASS HWY 537 WANUP UNDERPASS 9.1 7,250
69 HWY 537 WANUP UNDERPASS Estaire Rd Underpass 5.9 8,250
69 Estaire Rd Underpass HWY 17 IC UP ‐ END OF HWY 5.0 11,000
 
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