With the benefit of hindsight, how to change Canada's immigration policy?

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Or on that matter, consider the close ties early Canadians had with Britain and its' effect on various aspects of our national policy. We certainly didn't think of them as any less worthy as Canadians.

AoD

 

[Dichotomy]

Conceptually, they are both so vague and unimportant that comparison is idiotic. Outside of a few limericks, there is literally no difference between how the two systems function. Both accept that cultural choices are to be left to the individual (so long as other's rights aren't infringed) and that the state is not in the business of forcing conformity. The only difference is in wording. Canadian multi-culturalism stresses the right of individuals to choose their lifestyle while the American "fruit-pot", or whatever metonym, stresses the inability of the state to force conformity. They are identical

Politically, the USA and Canada are once again virtually identical. The one major difference being Canada is more urbanized. The five main Canadian cities comprise over half of our population. The five main US cities comprise maybe 6-7 percent of the population. An urbanite in Canada will have a life so similar to an urbanite in the USA that pretending there is a difference is ludicrous.

If I wanted to be really cutting, I could point out that new immigrants into the USA have a far longer period of economic "assimilation" and are far more likely to resort to criminality. All around, new immigrants to the USA have almost uniquely worse socio economic markers. I'm not blaming it on one meaningless buzzword like "melting pot" or anything, but if you are going to pretend as though there is some gorge in between Canadian and American policies, I would rather be on the Canadian side.

Off the top of my head: greater New YOrk is 18 million
greater LA is over 10
so is Chicago
Detroit, SF, Philadelphia, Boston, Dallas, Miami: pick any two, are at least 5 million apiece. That makes those cities at least 18-20% of the total population of the Excited States.

 

[Whoaccio]

Off the top of my head: greater New YOrk is 18 million
greater LA is over 10
so is Chicago
Detroit, SF, Philadelphia, Boston, Dallas, Miami: pick any two, are at least 5 million apiece. That makes those cities at least 18-20% of the total population of the Excited States.

Differences in accounting, I used muni boundaries. Instead of nitpicking, you should have seen if you're point makes any difference. Unless I REALLY screwed up my math, 18-20% is still less than 50% and you are still an idiot.

 

[Dichotomy]

Really, does it really hurt if I call my relatives back in India from time to time and visit them every 5-10 years??? Does that make me less Canadian or something.

Its a rather silly thing to be proud off, as one can easily be a Canadian and stay in touch with his family's roots.

Usually after a few generations, the ties back to the "homeland" diminish, as more of the immediate family comes to Canada or is born and raised in Canada. Also as generations pass, your old relatives back in the "homeland" start to die off.

Of course it doesn't 'hurt.' But don't you think that a poor Jew who got off the boat in Montreal in 1905 made a more serious commitment to his/her new homeland than a poor West African getting off a plane in Pearson today?

Question: why won't the banks lend money to taxi driver's? GMAC is the only institution that will and they want 50% down, 2 years amortization max. (It's interesting how quickly these guys come up with $14k cash, too )

Answer: because they don't pay their bills, they don't pay taxes, then they flock off home after 3 or 4 years and live like kings in their village with the
$50k or so they've pocketed.

My anecdotes might seem cute to some of you, but I work with the insurance and banking industry. You should hear some of the stories they tell after a cocktail or two. HSBC is one bank who will actually make loans to Chinese immigrants who can't even prove their income in Canada, because they have simply accepted that is the way those people do business.
We need to examine the countries where these people are coming from to anticipate what the attitudes these people are bringing with them. Rule of law is fundamental to the success of the West. In many 'emerging markets' laws are merely a suggestion.

We are not looking at the true costs of immigration. We only pay attention to the fluff pieces the Toronto Star prints.

 

[Dichotomy]

Differences in accounting, I used muni boundaries. Instead of nitpicking, you should have seen if you're point makes any difference. Unless I REALLY screwed up my math, 18-20% is still less than 50% and you are still an idiot.

Tsk, tsk. Name calling is the last refuge of the incompetent, sir.

 

[Whoaccio]

Tsk, tsk. Name calling is the last refuge of the incompetent, sir.

So what, in Dichotomy land, 20% is bigger than 50%? I guess "50%" has become a socialist-Miller driven conspiracy to drive off "good jobs" and replace them with immigrants and condo towers.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The census doesn't make it seem so. The U.S. census showed immigrants, whether from Africa Europe or Asia all have socioeconmic indicators such as education and income, usually higher than the general public. Certain immigrants, like Indians and Japanese, were extraordinarily higher.

I'm not sure that says more about immigrants themselves than it does about the general public they're being constrasted with. For example, it's been a long time since Japan was worse off than Mississippi...

 

[syn]

Of course it doesn't 'hurt.' But don't you think that a poor Jew who got off the boat in Montreal in 1905 made a more serious commitment to his/her new homeland than a poor West African getting off a plane in Pearson today?

How do you know?

How does anyone know?

Question: why won't the banks lend money to taxi driver's? GMAC is the only institution that will and they want 50% down, 2 years amortization max. (It's interesting how quickly these guys come up with $14k cash, too )

Answer: because they don't pay their bills, they don't pay taxes, then they flock off home after 3 or 4 years and live like kings in their village with the
$50k or so they've pocketed.

Yet another generalization. Do you really think they'll be able to survive 3-4 years here without paying their bills?

If that was their grand plan then I think immigrant taxi drivers, many of whom are quite educated, could come up with a better plan.

My anecdotes might seem cute to some of you, but I work with the insurance and banking industry. You should hear some of the stories they tell after a cocktail or two. HSBC is one bank who will actually make loans to Chinese immigrants who can't even prove their income in Canada, because they have simply accepted that is the way those people do business.

lol

Of course you do...

We need to examine the countries where these people are coming from to anticipate what the attitudes these people are bringing with them. Rule of law is fundamental to the success of the West. In many 'emerging markets' laws are merely a suggestion.

We are not looking at the true costs of immigration. We only pay attention to the fluff pieces the Toronto Star prints.

You seem to have an extremely sheltered existence.

 

[Dichotomy]

So what, in Dichotomy land, 20% is bigger than 50%? I guess "50%" has become a socialist-Miller driven conspiracy to drive off "good jobs" and replace them with immigrants and condo towers.

Still, 20% is triple 6%, no?

 

[Dichotomy]

How do you know?

How does anyone know?




Yet another generalization. Do you really think they'll be able to survive 3-4 years here without paying their bills?

If that was their grand plan then I think immigrant taxi drivers, many of whom are quite educated, could come up with a better plan.




lol

Of course you do...



You seem to have an extremely sheltered existence.

Au contraire, my friend. I orbit in quite a varied existence. In fact, I make a point of challenging convention. I don't swallow everything I read. I don't need to break out my resume here, but my posts will stand for themselves.

Where did you get the notion taxi drivers are highly educated? Read that in the Toronto Star, did you?
Do you work in the banking/insurance industry? No? Thought not. You're not going to get these guys/gals to repeat any of this for the record. That's just 'not done.'

As to 'who knows,' there are plenty of studies out there. Look them up. Daniel Stofman spent a few years studying Canada's immigration industry and has published a detailed report about it. The Atkinson Foundation even paid for it.

 

[adma]

Au contraire, my friend. I orbit in quite a varied existence. In fact, I make a point of challenging convention. I don't swallow everything I read. I don't need to break out my resume here, but my posts will stand for themselves.

Yeah, right.

 

[Dichotomy]

Yeah, right.

You don't think growing up gay in the '70s in this world makes one 'dichotomous?' I've worked with the richest families in Canada and have drug dealers as friends. I've ran my own company for 12 years, bankrupting many of my competitors. I've driven delivery trucks, crawled through more backrooms and alleys in more major cities at 4 a.m. than I warrant you ever have.
I've dated HK 'royalty' and had a 'person of color' as BF for 4 years. I have a canoe lost on an island in Georgian Bay and had driven a Rolls Camargue. I'm university educated, yet took auto mechanics in highschool. My current partner (of 6 years and counting) was raised Jehovah's Witness, yet I am an atheist.
My father was a trucker; my mother an accountant. We moved more times (I actually counted that I have gone to 13 schools from kindergarten to grade 13 in 6 school boards in 2 Provinces) than probably was good for me.
Well, I could go on, but you won't care because you've already made your mind up that I am an a-hole and if it turned out I was the Second Coming of Jesus you'd still find excuses to character assasinate me.

 

[syn]

Au contraire, my friend. I orbit in quite a varied existence. In fact, I make a point of challenging convention. I don't swallow everything I read. I don't need to break out my resume here, but my posts will stand for themselves.

Where did you get the notion taxi drivers are highly educated? Read that in the Toronto Star, did you?
Do you work in the banking/insurance industry? No? Thought not. You're not going to get these guys/gals to repeat any of this for the record. That's just 'not done.'

As to 'who knows,' there are plenty of studies out there. Look them up. Daniel Stofman spent a few years studying Canada's immigration industry and has published a detailed report about it. The Atkinson Foundation even paid for it.

I didn't write that all taxi drivers are highly educated.

I find most people who frequently make claims based on experience with no actual facts to back them up are usually just full of crap.

You expect us to believe you're knowledgeable and worldly with a resume to match yet your posts indicate the opposite.

 

[digi]

Well, I could go on, but you won't care because you've already made your mind up that I am an a-hole

You do tend to go on....but, I never thought you were an a-hole, until I read that last post of yours.
Never post when you're that angry.

 

[Dichotomy]

Attacking the messenger doesn't make what I am asserting any less valid.

Here's a research project: call up your local bank, tell them you want to buy a taxi. Ask them if they will finance you. Of course, they cannot descriminate on the basis of race or nationality, so they will simply deny EVERYONE the loan. GMAC will lend you 50% only over two years. Call them up, ask them.
I had the VP of a major insurance company tell me that they were not taking any 'new driver's' any more because of the losses they have had in the past few years due to 'new Canadians.' Again, they can't descrimate on the basis of nationality or race (although sex, age and marital status is okay ), so they just deny everyone. Unless you have been driving for a full year in Canada (which means you have been 'insured' in Canada for a full year.) Bit of a paradox there, actually.

Now, I've driven in some pretty awful places where I would say drivers were worse than around here, but my theory (and this is just a theory) is that in places like Paris or Brazil, although the drivers may be ALL crazy, they are all crazy in the same way. Witness a bus driver in Rio, driving a bus along a curvy beach road at 80 km/hr, giving change and shifting gears (no automatics for those drivers!) while careening through traffic. The first time I experienced it I was terrified. After a few days, I realized he anticipates the other basd driver's moves because they all drive badly the same way!
Not so in Toronto where half the drivers were driving in Bangkok, Mumbai, Beijing or herding goats 6 months ago, and now they are driving a car in a congested city with over crowded roads and - guess what - they cannot possibly know what the other driver is going to do!
Anyway, this is off topic somewhat, but as I have said: there are more costs to this rampant immigration in a modern world and we need to face those issues or our standard of living will decline severely. Many of those challenges (like car insurance and bank loans) were not issues 75 years ago, but they are today.