Who's going to be the next Liberal leader?

[kEiThZ]

I wouldn't characterize it like that. My point wasn't that Kennedy's heart is still in Manitoba, its that he understands the politics of the piraries having grown up there. When you grow up in a certain area, it helps you understand the dynamic of that region. Its helped Harper connect with Ontario outside Toronto, afterall.

Manitoba is hardly all conservative as they have an NDP government. I emphasize again that I don't put extreme weight in geographics, but to have a leader like Kennedy who understands what is needed outside the GTA and understand what is needed inside the GTA is a net positive for everyone.

Wow. You really don't understand Canada. In the West the NDP is the left alternative to the Conservatives. It's not that Manitoba is more to the left. This is largely a hanger-on from from the NDP's past. And if you look at the NDP's policies in the west you'll see that they are not very left wing at all.

These other names people keep mentioning do not make me feel energetic about the future. Kennedy brings an energy these other guys don't have.

Becuase it'll take a lot more than energy to beat the Conservatives.... There needs to be renewal within the Liberal Party. They have to become a national party again. I for one am skeptical that would happen with Kennedy. Just because he's from Manitoba that does not mean he'll be viewed as a westerner out West. He'll have to come with policies that the west prefers...which incidentally are ones that TMV residents and Quebecers might not support.

McKenna? He's Deputy Chair at TD Bank. He's also 60. He fits into the mold of the Liberals carrying another economically conservative, out of touch candidate who doesn't understand the needs of the voters Liberals need back. While he may have been more genuine in the past, people may not get the feeling he's currently in tune. Although he might help in Quebec??

I disagree with you. He'd help in more than Quebec. He'd shore up support in the Maritimes and probably BC. The prairies are debatable.

Everyone keeps repeating you can't expect Liberals to cater to the GTA. Well in a Federal election, you're right. So why revolt and effectively support an anti-GTA candidate by proxy in the name of Stephen Harper by throwing your hands up and giving up before even trying? Having Kennedy is better than electing an anti-GTA Liberal or voting for another party and helping Harper, IMO.

There was no large shift in the GTA for the Conservatives. A few seats here and there. And its not that there is an anti-GTA Liberal candidate. It's just that by and large the Liberals don't care about Toronto. T.O. is safe for the Libs. Toronto's Liberal establishment will support anyone who is electable regardless of how much they care about Tdot. That's the difference between us and the Quebecers.

I'm sure Jack Layton would effectively care more about funding priorities that would help Toronto than probably any Liberal, but is he electable?

No. This is the end of the NDP's rise.

 

[Brandon716]

Wow. You really don't understand Canada.

Wow. Like, I totally understand the NDP is not far, far left in Manitoba dude. Like, totally.

Keith, you're response was so condescending and so rediculous I won't bother responding anymore.

You got my opinion and the reasons why I think Kennedy is the best pick. If you disagree, so be it.

 

[Moonmoth]

So Dion is stepping down after a Liberal leadership convention....actually I liked him as Liberal leader. It's really a shame that Canadians now react to the more American-style, character assassination type of politics which doles out unsubstantiated propaganda and scare-tactics, rather then just accept someone with integrity, intelligence and experience.

Maybe as Chantal Hebert predicts, Elizabeth May will be recruited to the Liberal party as leader...

 

[kEiThZ]

Wow. Like, I totally understand the NDP is not far, far left in Manitoba dude. Like, totally.

Keith, you're response was so condescending and so rediculous I won't bother responding anymore.

You got my opinion and the reasons why I think Kennedy is the best pick. If you disagree, so be it.

Please point out where I have been condescending....otherwise your response was far more sarcastic in tone. Pointing out that you don't understand the west is not condescending after all that you have advocated in this thread.

If you disagree with my points, present a cogent argument. Calling me condescending just because you can't respond in kind says more about you than it does about me.

 

[cacruden]

So Dion is stepping down after a Liberal leadership convention....actually I liked him as Liberal leader. It's really a shame that Canadians now react to the more American-style, character assassination type of politics which doles out unsubstantiated propaganda and scare-tactics, rather then just accept someone with integrity, intelligence and experience.

Maybe as Chantal Hebert predicts, Elizabeth May will be recruited to the Liberal party as leader...

If Dion had given up on being Prime Minister - he would have stepped out of position as Leader and an interim leader would have been selected - which may mean that he is hoping for one last Hail Mary attempt - next budget. It would be funny to see him trying to bring down the government - while Rae and Iggy try to dissuade bringing down the government (while attempting not to be seen supporting the government)

 

[ShonTron]

Brandon, it's not worth banging our heads over. While I'm not that enthusiastic about Kennedy myself, you make some decent points. I really can't see the appeal of John Manley (beyond a few fiscal conservatives and the Bay Street crowd), who pulled a Lieberman with that Afganistan report, has no personality and would be a right-wing, anglophone version of Stephane Dion, and made himself very unpopular amongst many in the Liberal Party. Frank McKenna is past his political best before date, which I am sure he's aware of, given that he's a bank executive who didn't even bother seriously consider running in 2006.

I'd like to hear from Unimaginative2 on this. I'm not the only one making the Lieberman/Manley comparison.

 

[cacruden]

Brandon, it's not worth banging our heads over. While I'm not that enthusiastic about Kennedy myself, you make some decent points. I really can't see the appeal of John Manley, who pulled a Liberman with that Afganistan report, has no personality and would be a right-wing, anglophone version of Stephane Dion. Frank McKenna is way past his political best before date, which I am sure he's aware of, given that he's a bank executive who didn't even bother seriously consider running in 2006.

I'd like to hear from Unimaginative2 on this. I'm not the only one making the Liberman/Manley comparison.

Dam these conservatives, centerist liberals and moderate liberals, etc. Seems like you don't like being challenged by people that are not of your political following. There seems to be a number of people on this board that think there near the center of the Canadian spectrum – when they are not. Just because a lot of people that you associate with - or post to this board – agree with you – does not make it representative.

I find people that only like to talk politics with like minded individuals boring, and intellectually bankrupt when it comes to politics. I know that I am significantly right of the center of Canada - but I am not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend that my views are those of a majority of Canadians.

Why do I know that the views here are slanted to the left (significantly) -- the polls. Polls like proportional representation - done at the party level - which won easily on polling here (2 to 1), yet has been soundly rejected at the polls. And polls where a majority here tend to support the NDP (remember a poll - just can't find it right now).

So when I see a poll where Gerard Kennedy surges to the lead - it reinforces my belief that he is as far to the left of the political spectrum as I think.

 

[ShonTron]

I'm curious to hear what Liberal faithful know. I've sparred with unimaginative many times, but he's as capital-L Liberal as they come, from what I gather. I'm surprised he hasn't come in on the discussion.

Dam the conservatives? That might help stop the flow of the myth of trickle down economics!

You calling me intellectually backrupt? Them's fighting words.
I don't mind debating with people I disagree with. I do mind debating those who can not respect others' opinions.

People keep saying Martin was right, he was right because of necessity (not because that was where his heart lay). When he became finance minister - he actually did not believe in a zero deficit.... but Canada was in such bad shape that we were on the verge of having to deal with the IMF. Countries that deal with IMF tend to be complete basket cases after - if they were not before.

He was right wing. We were never in danger of having to deal with the IMF. The deficit would have done okay without the massive slashes in sending and transfers, which only dumped the problems on the provinces (who did deal with the deficit as well), and the municipalities, whom are not permitted to have deficits. The economy picked up, even with the tax cuts, we had a big surplus until Harper blew it, and is the IMF threatening to take over the US, the biggest deficit basketcase there is right now?

Oh, and I didn't select GK. I expect Bob Rae to win this one.

 

[kEiThZ]

I say throw the lot out....start fresh...McGuinty for PM!

 

[cacruden]

You calling me intellectually backrupt? Them's fighting words.
I don't mind debating with people I disagree with. I do mind debating those who can not respect others' opinions.

Actually, I was very carefully dancing around from calling you intellectually bankrupt -- it cannot be determined from one posting. BUT, I was stating my opnion that to me - not wanting to discuss/argue issues with people that do not agree with you - is a red flag.

I actually find discussion politics with people I agree with - quite boring.

Now if you find it describes you.... jab jab

 

[Moonmoth]

If Dion had given up on being Prime Minister - he would have stepped out of position as Leader and an interim leader would have been selected - which may mean that he is hoping for one last Hail Mary attempt - next budget. It would be funny to see him trying to bring down the government - while Rae and Iggy try to dissuade bringing down the government (while attempting not to be seen supporting the government)

Ooooh interesting perspective! I like it! I just read that he said he would step down after a leadership convention...that he wouldn't be running in. Very interesting. I guess if, as opposition leader, he brings down the Cons, he could get another crack at it.

 

[kEiThZ]

Ooooh interesting perspective! I like it! I just read that he said he would step down after a leadership convention...that he wouldn't be running in. Very interesting. I guess if, as opposition leader, he brings down the Cons, he could get another crack at it.

With the debt they have, it's unlikely. They'd be running on fumes if the next election occurred over a budget vote....

 

[King of Kensington]

Maybe as Chantal Hebert predicts, Elizabeth May will be recruited to the Liberal party as leader...

...if they want to lose their official party status!

 

[King of Kensington]

I expect Bob Rae to win this one.

I think it will be Rae - he sounds progressive but has also has a lot of support on Bay St., etc. He will just have to tone down some of his anti-NDP rhetoric - the more he attacks them with the zeal of a convert, the less appealing he will be to NDP voters.

 

[kEiThZ]

I'd be worried that Rae winning would energize the NDP faithful and would give plenty of ammo to the Conservatives. Running Rae when a recession looms would make Harper look good.

I think they need to look outside the crop of the current front runners.