Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

[Towered]

... and it passes council.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1722694942483517827

Did John Tory delay this during his tenure? Shouldn't it have already had this kind of council vote way before he left?

 

[Jeff Morgan]

Do you think yesterday's announcement will have any impact on this project?

From the agreement: "Commitment to work with the Province to advance immediate opportunities for Waterfront Toronto to build all forms of housing on their available property as well as accelerate all existing housing development projects to address the shortage of social, affordable, and market housing in Toronto."

In Steve Munro's article he states "In spite of much talk of accelerated housing development on the Waterfront, there is no mention of the Waterfront East LRT line."

We know this agreement will free up some money for the city but do you think some of it will be spent here once the next round of designs are complete?

 

[DSC]

Do you think yesterday's announcement will have any impact on this project?

From the agreement: "Commitment to work with the Province to advance immediate opportunities for Waterfront Toronto to build all forms of housing on their available property as well as accelerate all existing housing development projects to address the shortage of social, affordable, and market housing in Toronto."

In Steve Munro's article he states "In spite of much talk of accelerated housing development on the Waterfront, there is no mention of the Waterfront East LRT line."

We know this agreement will free up some money for the city but do you think some of it will be spent here once the next round of designs are complete?

The More $$ that are available, the better the chances are that some will get to this Project. The City have just said they will pay to do more design work...

 

[EnviroTO]

The city will use the financial benefits of the upload of the Gardiner and the Don Valley Parkway to support historic investments in housing and the infrastructure that support and enable growth, such as transit, water and wastewater infrastructure and local road improvements.

I think when you combine this statement with the East Harbour TOD priority and Waterfront Toronto housing priority, the language is saying the right thing in terms of Waterfront East LRT despite no specific mention. Although, clearly the province will not be spending money on streetcars and Doug has on many occasions questioned the value of streetcars, so it is for the city to fund it.

 

[DSC]

This was passed by Council yesterday as part of City budget.

20. City Council authorize the Executive Director, Transit Expansion to negotiate and execute all required capital delivery agreements related to project design, including amendments thereto, with the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation ("Waterfront Toronto"), on terms and conditions satisfactory to the Executive Director, Transit Expansion and in a form satisfactory to the City Solicitor, for Waterfront Toronto to facilitate the completion of projects that support the Waterfront East Light Rail Transit.

 

[Jeff Morgan]

This was passed by Council yesterday as part of City budget.

20. City Council authorize the Executive Director, Transit Expansion to negotiate and execute all required capital delivery agreements related to project design, including amendments thereto, with the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation ("Waterfront Toronto"), on terms and conditions satisfactory to the Executive Director, Transit Expansion and in a form satisfactory to the City Solicitor, for Waterfront Toronto to facilitate the completion of projects that support the Waterfront East Light Rail Transit.

My reading of this is that they have approved continuing work on the design. What am I missing?

 

[DSC]

My reading of this is that they have approved continuing work on the design. What am I missing?

The design is continuing -what you (and the project) are missing is $$$ to actually DO THE DAMNED WORK!

 

[evandyk]

We are going to have the best designed unfunded waterfront streetcar in the world.

 

[drum118]

The design is continuing -what you (and the project) are missing is $$$ to actually DO THE DAMNED WORK!

It is time to get the drawings up to 100% by year end to allow tenders to go out in 2025 with construction to start in 2026.

I go back to my phasing that will start in the east end and work toward Yonge St to allow TTC building the east portal up to Bay St that will be just short of the Bay Tunnel. Once everything is about finished for the line to Commissioner Loop, the tunnel is closed to allow the rebuilding of the west portal and the tunnel to allow the bypass tracks to be built that will connect to the new east portal. The tunnel will be blocked off to allow streetcars to start using the new extension while the Bay tunnel, QQ stations and the Union Loop are rebuilt and brought up to code. This will see the 509/510 out of service from 6-12 months depending on how TTC does things. Union Loop can follow when money is there on its own timetable.

While work is taking place in the east, the Yonge slip work is taking place to allow the relocation of the entrance to the Hotel before TTC starts its work. The line could be up and running by 2030 or sooner not the 2032-35 current timeframe.

Not holding my breath and hopes on these announcements as it is only talk until you show me the money to do it. 10 years late so far and what is another 8-11 years for those nice-looking drawings to bear fruit if then?

 

[DSC]

Just as a reminder, the most recent report was last spring and is at https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...ont-East-LRT-PIC-3-Presentation2023-04-05.pdf

Implementation Scenarios•

Scenario 1: Prioritize delivery of the WELRT from Union Station to Villiers Island before the 504A extension from Distillery Loop•
Scenario 2: Prioritize delivery of the 504A Extension to Villiers Island before WELRT line from Union Station along Queens Quay•

Scenario 1 is the preliminary preferred option, because it:
• Avoids multiple overlapping projects along Cherry North
• Serves the rapidly growing East Bayfront neighbourhood
• Does not rely on capacity from the 504 King streetcar
• Provides an opportunity for interim East-West through-running service
• Critical Early Works: Yonge Slip Lakefill, Queens Quay East Extension
• With appropriate funding, early works design and construction may be advanced to accelerate overall project delivery

Potential Delivery Timelines (preliminary, subject to change as design and coordination progress):
• Interim East-West through running: 2030 – 2033
• Full WELRT Operation: 2032 – 2035

 

[JasonParis]

It quite obviously needs to be Scenario 1.

 

[Jeff Morgan]

What are the next milestones? Is there a report back to Council scheduled?

 

[dowlingm]

Even if the track through isn’t built, I would like Cherry Rail Embankment Portal built and the Tower moved before further construction inflation kills the project entirely (or difficulty obtaining construction windows due to the criticality of ramped up train service overhead).

 

[DSC]

Even if the track through isn’t built, I would like Cherry Rail Embankment Portal built and the Tower moved before further construction inflation kills the project entirely (or difficulty obtaining construction windows due to the criticality of ramped up train service overhead).

Laying the the track from the existing Distillery Loop on Cherry south to Cherry & QQE is the cheap part of this project; it is moving the Tower and going under the berm that is VERY expensive. No point building the portal and then not using it.

 

[dowlingm]

Laying the the track from the existing Distillery Loop on Cherry south to Cherry & QQE is the cheap part of this project; it is moving the Tower and going under the berm that is VERY expensive. No point building the portal and then not using it.

My concern is that having only one route to get Portlands cars in and out of service puts things on a shaky footing, especially when that route east of Spadina Loop is prone to disruption, and the Commissioners route to Leslie Barns’ back door was also long-fingered because of a pricey infrastructure change.