VIA Rail

[dimonpc]

Took a train from Montreal to Toronto yesterday. Instead of arriving around 10:30pm, we've arrived to Toronto at 1am. It's pretty ridiculous. I love trains and will keep taking them, but it's just embarrassing what kind of train system we have between 2 biggest and the best cities in Canada.
Can't wait for the the new trains and Hight Frequency service to kick in. Hope it will improve the experience significantly. Also, it's weird that the platforms at Union station are not leveled and we have to use pretty dangerous stairs to climb the train with all the bags and stuff.. And this is the most important and the busiest station in Canada.

 

[Bordercollie]

Took a train from Montreal to Toronto yesterday. Instead of arriving around 10:30pm, we've arrived to Toronto at 1am. It's pretty ridiculous. I love trains and will keep taking them, but it's just embarrassing what kind of train system we have between 2 biggest and the best cities in Canada.
Can't wait for the the new trains and Hight Frequency service to kick in. Hope it will improve the experience significantly. Also, it's weird that the platforms at Union station are not leveled and we have to use pretty dangerous stairs to climb the train with all the bags and stuff.. And this is the most important and the busiest station in Canada.

What was the reason for the delay?

 

[dimonpc]

Due to railway infrastructure maintenance by the infrastructure owner, our operations will be affected on August 12 and 13, 2023. For this reason, your train is expected to incur a significant delay upon arrival in Toronto.

That was the reason given. We ended up going to Markham area, stopped, let the freight train to pass. Then were going backwards and forward again to change tracks or something and then started going south to Union. Also stopped a few times somewhere half way not sure for what reason.

 

[Bordercollie]

Due to railway infrastructure maintenance by the infrastructure owner, our operations will be affected on August 12 and 13, 2023. For this reason, your train is expected to incur a significant delay upon arrival in Toronto.

That was the reason given. We ended up going to Markham area, stopped, let the freight train to pas. Then were going backwards and forward again to change tracks or something and then started going south to Union. Also stopped a few times somewhere half way not sure for what reason.

It took two hours to detour on the York Sub and down the Bala Sub to Union?

 

[dimonpc]

My bad, I supposed to arrive at 11:33pm, not 10:30pm, train 669. So it took an hour and a half to detour. Apparently all trains last weekend were affected - https://www.viarail.ca/en/plan/train-schedules:

TRAVEL ADVISORY​

Important Notice
Due to maintenance work by the railway infrastructure owner on Aug 12-13, there will be no service to or from Guildwood Station and some trains will run on a different route:

• Trains affected Eastbound: 40, 44, 46, 48, 50, 52, 54, 60, 62, 64, 66, 668, 68: Significant delay en route. Train 42: Slight delay en route
• Trains affected Westbound: 41, 45, 47, 53, 55, 59, 61, 63, 643, 645, 65, 669, 67, 69: Significant delay upon arrival in Toronto

There will be no service to or from Guildwood Station on August 12 and 13, 2023. Toronto’s Union Station or Oshawa Station are suggested as the closer alternative.

 

[cplchanb]

Due to railway infrastructure maintenance by the infrastructure owner, our operations will be affected on August 12 and 13, 2023. For this reason, your train is expected to incur a significant delay upon arrival in Toronto.

That was the reason given. We ended up going to Markham area, stopped, let the freight train to pass. Then were going backwards and forward again to change tracks or something and then started going south to Union. Also stopped a few times somewhere half way not sure for what reason.

ouch..... typical run down track infrastructure... never on time...

 

[ShonTron]

Train 669 is usually my favourite for returning home from Montreal as it maximizes my time there. The detour via the York and Bala Subs is great during daytime and you like the rare mileage, but at that time of the evening, yeah, it’d stink.

 

[Urban Sky]

That was the reason given. We ended up going to Markham area, stopped, let the freight train to pass. Then were going backwards and forward again to change tracks or something and then started going south to Union. Also stopped a few times somewhere half way not sure for what reason.

Yep, there is a missing connection in the SE quadrant at Doncaster, which would link the York and Bala Subdivisions. Therefore, your train had to first pass pver the Doncaster Diamond (i.e. from East to West), then back onto the Bala Subdivision (i.e. from West to North) and then pass a third time through Doncaster (i.e. from North to South):

Something very similar happens every time Train 1 leaves Toronto towards Vancouver, which has to back at Snider from the North to the West in order to proceed from the South (Union Station) towards the East (Doncaster):

It took two hours to detour on the York Sub and down the Bala Sub to Union?

The train already arrived Oshawa 43 minutes late and arrived at Union exactly 90 minutes late, meaning that it lost 45 minutes during the detour, which is really not that bad considering that the York and Bala Subs are mostly single-tracked and require a backup move inbetween:

 

[crs1026]

^It's also worth noting that this junction is a particularly important one for CN freight traffic, and a point of congestion even without VIA in the picture.

The track signals and switches are laid out to facilitate the prevailing freight routes, and the routing VIA needs is not in the design. Routing even a single VIA west to south or north to east ties up a fair bit of the plant to the north and to the west of the junction. Trying to run VIA's entire corridor schedule over that routing is a big deal.

- Paul

 

[p_xavier]

That's why I always travel in business class. Extra wine glasses is a good way to pass delay time.

 

[cplchanb]

Yep, there is a missing connection in the SE quadrant at Doncaster, which would link the York and Bala Subdivisions. Therefore, your train had to first pass pver the Doncaster Diamond (i.e. from East to West), then back onto the Bala Subdivision (i.e. from West to North) and then pass a third time through Doncaster (i.e. from North to South):


Something very similar happens every time Train 1 leaves Toronto towards Vancouver, which has to back at Snider from the North to the West in order to proceed from the South (Union Station) towards the East (Doncaster):



The train already arrived Oshawa 43 minutes late and arrived at Union exactly 90 minutes late, meaning that it lost 45 minutes during the detour, which is really not that bad considering that the York and Bala Subs are mostly single-tracked and require a backup move inbetween:
View attachment 500061

8 mins late even at the start... they cant even depart the first station on time....sad but unsurprising for Via.

 

[just east of the creek]

^It's also worth noting that this junction is a particularly important one for CN freight traffic, and a point of congestion even without VIA in the picture.

The track signals and switches are laid out to facilitate the prevailing freight routes, and the routing VIA needs is not in the design. Routing even a single VIA west to south or north to east ties up a fair bit of the plant to the north and to the west of the junction. Trying to run VIA's entire corridor schedule over that routing is a big deal.

- Paul

And the chances of the missing quadrant being (re) established? I am sure it could be messy given the number of owner operators.

 

[IRT_BMT_IND]

And the chances of the missing quadrant being (re) established? I am sure it could be messy given the number of owner operators.

Probably never, seeing how it would require houses to be expropriated. This curve was never built because there were no services that needed it, which is still true outside of rare VIA diversions. Even the west-to-north curve at SniderDoncaster was only added in the 90s, after CN closed the Alderdale/Beachburg subdivision and routed all Montreal-Western Canada traffic through Toronto.

 

[Bordercollie]

They could add it on the Newmarket Sub. So instead of going up the Bala Sub go north on the Newmarket Sub to cross over to the York Sub eliminating the backup move.

Depends on which is cheaper. Also the Bala Sub south towards Oriole is only 35Mph which is not that fast.

 

[crs1026]

They could add it on the Newmarket Sub. So instead of going up the Bala Sub go north on the Newmarket Sub to cross over to the York Sub eliminating the backup move.

Depends on which is cheaper. Also the Bala Sub south towards Oriole is only 35Mph which is not that fast.

Why would they do it at all? Not a good use of anyone's money. Only used every couple years.

- Paul