TTC: Streetcar Network

[Admiral Beez]

Speaking of vandalism it’s a shame we don’t punish anti social behaviour at all!

Every screen smashed out for months though they’re changing them slowly. I believe some were at pioneer village as wellView attachment 566933View attachment 566934

They need to be smash proof.

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[smallspy]

I'm curious how old the track on the curve, and on Coxwell between the Lower Gerrard and Upper Gerrard intersections are.

With the exception perhaps of the carstops, the tangent track between Lower and Upper Gerrard was last done around 1997 or 1998.

The curve was done more recently, but I can't recall an exact date.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

With the exception perhaps of the carstops, the tangent track between Lower and Upper Gerrard was last done around 1997 or 1998.

The curve was done more recently, but I can't recall an exact date.

That sounds about right, looking at the state of the concrete.

The curve wasn't done since 2004 - it's older than the adjacent 2006 work, and I could see it out my window from 2004 to 2006!

If I remember correctly, they rebuilt the Gerrard/Main curve in 2003, or maybe 2002. I suppose it would make sense to have done the Upper Gerrard/Coxwell curve at the same time. Not that making sense has ever been part of the TTC's modus operandi.

When did they start using the track installed on those metal ties, with good insulation? I was surprised there was no sign of that in the new excavations. And they certainly were using it in 2006. I can't remember what I saw in 2002/03.

 

[turbanplanner]

saw over a dozen 503's stopped on queen street due to a crash

 

[smallspy]

The curve wasn't done since 2004 - it's older than the adjacent 2006 work, and I could see it out my window from 2004 to 2006!

This sounds about right.

If I remember correctly, they rebuilt the Gerrard/Main curve in 2003, or maybe 2002. I suppose it would make sense to have done the Upper Gerrard/Coxwell curve at the same time. Not that making sense has ever been part of the TTC's modus operandi.

Well, does it make sense though? Think of it from a budgetting standpoint.

Yes they are both along the same stretch of tracks with no switches in between, and therefore suffer from the exact same levels of wear-and-tear. But their replacement is on different schedules because the intersection of Upper Gerrard and Coxwell would have originally been on a different replacement schedule due to it having switches until 1968. I don't know for certain, but I would hazard a guess that the switches were removed a couple of years after the curves at Main and Gerrard were done, putting them out of sequence.

When did they start using the track installed on those metal ties, with good insulation? I was surprised there was no sign of that in the new excavations. And they certainly were using it in 2006. I can't remember what I saw in 2002/03.

They started doing that on tangent track in the late 1990s - the Coxwell stretch between the Gerrards may have been one of the first sections done - but curves and specialwork continued to be built on wooden ties until the mid-2000s.

They didn't start adding the rubber encapsulation to the rails at specialwork until the mid-2010s - I think King and Dufferin was the first one done.

Dan

 

[Admiral Beez]

Is there any talk of adding streetcars, not just the LRT into Scarborough? They currently touch on the Scarborough border at Victoria Park and Neville St. Would a return of the Birchmount loop be viable or useful?

Remembering Birchmount Loop - Transit Toronto - Content

Originally streetcars ran just east of Midland & Kingston Rd.

 

[nfitz]

Is there any talk of adding streetcars, not just the LRT into Scarborough? They currently touch on the Scarborough border at Victoria Park and Neville St. Would a return of the Birchmount loop be viable or useful?

Remembering Birchmount Loop - Transit Toronto - Content

Originally streetcars ran just east of Midland & Kingston Rd.

No.

And they were very quick to kill any prospect of it in public meetings at the time of the Victoria Park Danforth or Kingston Road BRT consultation about 15 years ago.

 

[turbanplanner]

No.

And they were very quick to kill any prospect of it in public meetings at the time of the Victoria Park Danforth or Kingston Road BRT consultation about 15 years ago.

how much of that was due to brts being “the way of the future” back then?

 

[Sunnyside]

No.

And they were very quick to kill any prospect of it in public meetings at the time of the Victoria Park Danforth or Kingston Road BRT consultation about 15 years ago.

I too would like to know why this was the case. For one, it might shed some light on what the TTC thinks wrt streetcar utility. Two, I wonder how quickly this would require a wholesale rethink of how quickly streetcars get around, and how often they stop, to deliver any reasonable kind of service that far out. In any case, It's curious where the TTC is at on this sort of file, given the situation on Villiers Island not leaving a good impression.

 

[nfitz]

how much of that was due to brts being “the way of the future” back then?

Nothing - especially as they were simultaneously pushing 8 different LRT projects in Toronto.

It was Nimbys living on Victoria Park.

 

[smallspy]

I too would like to know why this was the case. For one, it might shed some light on what the TTC thinks wrt streetcar utility. Two, I wonder how quickly this would require a wholesale rethink of how quickly streetcars get around, and how often they stop, to deliver any reasonable kind of service that far out. In any case, It's curious where the TTC is at on this sort of file, given the situation on Villiers Island not leaving a good impression.

Unless it operates on a private-right-of-way, the TTC is not interested in extending on-street streetcar routes. Neither Victoria Park nor Kingston Rd. are wide enough to allow for 2 lanes of road traffic and streetcar tracks, and so the idea was shot down.

There are a number of places where the City is looking at extending the current streetcar network, but they are all projected to be via PROWs.

Dan

 

[Admiral Beez]

I too would like to know why this was the case. For one, it might shed some light on what the TTC thinks wrt streetcar utility. Two, I wonder how quickly this would require a wholesale rethink of how quickly streetcars get around, and how often they stop, to deliver any reasonable kind of service that far out. In any case, It's curious where the TTC is at on this sort of file, given the situation on Villiers Island not leaving a good impression.

It's is noteworthy how the streetcar network seems to stop dead at the Scarborough border.

 

[DSC]

It's is noteworthy how the streetcar network seems to stop dead at the Scarborough border.

Why is it noteworthy.? There has been no expansion of the streetcar network at the outer limits since Scarborough ceased to be a separate municipality.

 

[drum118]

It's is noteworthy how the streetcar network seems to stop dead at the Scarborough border.

I stand to be corrected, but the Kingston car ran to Birchmount Loop or about until the 50/60's when it was cut back to where it is today.

In the 80's, the SRT was to be a streetcar line running to Malvern with branch line until the province was sold a white elephant known as the SRT to be the showcase to be sold around the world. The province give TTC a choice to either built the SRT or loose funding. TTC had no choice but to build the SRT like it is today and short to where it was to go in the first place due to funding.

When Transit City surface, an LRT was to run on Sheppard that saw provision for it when the Sheppard Grade Separation took place. Transit City was scrap when the Fords came to power.

The SRT was to be replaced by an LRT until the PAM AM games came to town with Metrolinx saying they did not see the LRT up an running by Game Time. Plans were change to build the extension and the new yard first with the SRT shutting down after the games to be rebuilt and open in 2018. 2 Scarborough Councilors who sat on TTC Commission went to the dark side in calling for the subway.

Ford ran on a subway platform and the rest is history. The only streetcar line that will be built in Scarborough is the Eglinton East Line some time down the road at this point of time.

Cannot blame TTC for no streetcars in Scarborough

 

[T3G]

I stand to be corrected, but the Kingston car ran to Birchmount Loop or about until the 50/60's when it was cut back to where it is today.

That is late history. At one time, the T&YR Scarboro interurban ran along Kingston Road from Victoria Park all the way to West Hill, near today's Fairwood Crescent by Old Kingston Road.