TTC Ridership Growth Strategy 3

[JasonParis]

Wasn't expecting the Hammy Hamster reference. lol

 

[Northern Light]

I agree with the above sentiments.

I would add a non-TTC example of where we are going wrong here.....

I have a friend who works security at a downtown office tower. He has to summon EMS multiple times per week to deal with overdoses on the outdoor portions of the complex.

Standard procedure is that EMS administers Narcan, whereafter EMS waits a few minutes to see that the person is conscious and vaguely coherent then leaves.

That's right, they don't take them to detox, to treatment or hospital, they leave them out there..to go procure more substances and try to kill themselves all over again.

This is a cruel, sadistic abdication of responsibility. It leaves people homeless, hopeless and addicted .

I'm not going to fault the individual responders, this will be a policy decision from on high. Everyone bailing both due to lack of good in-patient treatment programs and a willingness to compel people to enroll; and then to help them get their life straight, not just toss them back outside where history will repeat itself.

Apathy and indifference aren't kindness or compassion.

 

[T3G]

It’s not about solving homelessness and addictions, but keeping them off the TTC.

Is it?

How are things better if you encounter these problems outside of the TTC? Is it okay if you see someone strung out on drugs in a park, or a coffee shop, or a library?

POP needs to be reversed.

How do you propose we do this? Have everyone file on through one door on the Flexity streetcars? We might as well pack up the transit system at that point, since it would be faster to walk.

 

[JasonParis]

I was at King Station the other day when a homeless person pushed through the barriers. A station attendant ran after him and said, “Next time, just tell me first and I’ll open it.” I get the intent, but this clearly isn’t a sustainable solution—and it’s a reminder of why fare inspections are needed system-wide.

 

[nfitz]

Because it’s not within the TTC’s responsibility or ability to solve society’s ills. Instead the TTC needs to recognize and work within the society it finds itself. This is a city with an issue with homelessness, addiction and mental illness, same as every major city in North America.

The TTC is a city agency, and its the city's responsibility. It's literally the same people calling the shots. To say otherwise is ignoring the problem.I

I was at King Station the other day when a homeless person pushed through the barriers. A station attendant ran after him and said, “Next time, just tell me first and I’ll open it.” I get the intent, but this clearly isn’t a sustainable solution—and it’s a reminder of why fare inspections are needed system-wide.

If relatively sober and non-violent, I don't see a big issue with this. But I think a complaint to TTC and the councillor is in order.

 

[Bojaxs]

Is it?

How are things better if you encounter these problems outside of the TTC? Is it okay if you see someone strung out on drugs in a park, or a coffee shop, or a library?

Seeing homeless people outside at a park or on the street is not the same as being stuck on a train with them when the doors close. That's the difference.

I don't want to feel as if I'm trapped with these people when they start having a psychotic episode, and I can't get away from them until the next stop. Particularly stressful for anyone who might have their children with them.

 

[T3G]

Seeing homeless people outside at a park or on the street is not the same as being stuck on a train with them when the doors close. That's the difference.

I don't want to feel as if I'm trapped with these people when they start having a psychotic episode, and I can't get away from them until the next stop. Particularly stressful for anyone who might have their children with them.

But those same people you fear of having a psychotic episode could also attack you in the street, or while you're sitting down on a bench, if they were so inclined, and you don't have your head on a swivel.

The TTC is a city agency, and any attempts specifically focused on removing the homeless from the transit system instead of dealing with the problem in its entirety are just shifting the problem elsewhere, and does both the homeless, and the general population at large, a disservice.

 

[Northern Light]

But those same people you fear of having a psychotic episode could also attack you in the street, or while you're sitting down on a bench, if they were so inclined, and you don't have your head on a swivel.

The TTC is a city agency, and any attempts specifically focused on removing the homeless from the transit system instead of dealing with the problem in its entirety are just shifting the problem elsewhere, and does both the homeless, and the general population at large, a disservice.

Respectfully, I think you're mostly arguing w/yourself at this point.

Which is to suggest that I don't think anyone believes that the TTC ousting addicts or the homeless is unto itself a desirable or thoughtful outcome. Rather, some would contend its an essential first step.

Perhaps to get the attention of a Premier who doesn't care much about transit riders, may care more if the problem is more visible to him or his supporters.

To be clear, it may not work. Its certainly not a sufficient exercise or solution unto itself.

There is an argument though, however cruel it may seem, that the series of bandaids we're currently applying aren't working for anyone, and that something needs to be done so as to make something less problematic (taking transit) and to spur government action on the issues of mental illness and addition rather than not so benignly ignoring the problem.

Kindness and compassion ought to be essential parts of any series of choices to address the issue; but we have to admit that's not what's happening now; and meanwhile, transit ridership remains slow to recover (though some of that is just residual remote/hybrid work likely to go away in the next few months); and many are also discouraged from using parks/playgrounds because of the presence of addicts or needles.

The status quo needs a shake up. While we certainly should be concerned that we might make it worse, I'm not sure how much worse we can make it than the widespread crisis we already have, which is killing addicts, leaving people homeless, and malnourished while simultaneously dragging down quality of life for others.

 

[Bojaxs]

But those same people you fear of having a psychotic episode could also attack you in the street, or while you're sitting down on a bench, if they were so inclined, and you don't have your head on a swivel.

I have the ability to run away. I don't while on a bus, streetcar or on the subway, Line 2.

 

[lrt's friend]

I have seen what happens when you allow punks, addicts and drunks free reign on trains when I last visited LA in 2024. It is viewed by the public as a serious safety issue negatively affecting ridership. While LA has spent piles of money on new rail lines, ridership gains have been hampered by safety issues. I saw a bit of this when I was there and nobody should want this on the TTC. It needs to be nipped in the bud

 

[T3G]

Respectfully, I think you're mostly arguing w/yourself at this point.

Am I? This is the initial post I responded to:

It’s not about solving homelessness and addictions, but keeping them off the TTC.

I think it's very easy to interpret this post as saying that keeping these people off the TTC being the only factor that matters. If this is merely a miscommunication then I will eat my words, but that is certainly how I interpreted it, and I think that's a fairly myopic approach to the problem, myself.

I have the ability to run away. I don't while on a bus, streetcar or on the subway, Line 2.

You may have the ability, but unless you can foresee an attack, that may not necessarily be of help to you, i.e. if someone decides to attack you from behind.

 

[Northern Light]

Am I? This is the initial post I responded to:

I think it's very easy to interpret this post as saying that keeping these people off the TTC being the only factor that matters. If this is merely a miscommunication then I will eat my words, but that is certainly how I interpreted it, and I think that's a fairly myopic approach to the problem, myself.

I hear you, but I think if you read the totality of the comments by the Admiral, you see a slightly different picture.

He later said this:

The province and feds, being responsible for healthcare and housing should bear the brunt of the lifting. There are an estimated 200,000 homeless people in Ontario. Surely if we treated this like a natural disaster, Great Fire of Toronto level of engagement and expense we could house them all. But like they say on the Riverbank, that's another story.

That does not suggest to me that he wants nothing done about the issue, or to sweep the problem under the proverbial rug; rather, that he wants to the TTC to hand the problem back to its creator/enabler, the province.

 

[Northern Light]

Now w/that said, perhaps we can take this back to the core issue of RGS 3.

I think the subject of real/perceived safety and cleanliness as it relates to the TTC's ridability (or lack thereof) has now been well covered.

So lets bring this back to how to spend City/TTC dollars wisely to woo more people on to transit. (other than as it relates to the above)

 

[Bojaxs]

You may have the ability, but unless you can foresee an attack, that may not necessarily be of help to you, i.e. if someone decides to attack you from behind.

Yes.... if someone sneaks up on me, I'm a dead man. I accept that.