TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It’s evidently a common trend for young people to fare evade these days. The whole free transit movements in the NE US are largely run by younger individuals. Nothing special is happening here, just some pricks who think they are better than everyone else and fall into the same category of low-income people who actually have a fair justification for fare evading.

I agree with having low income passes (or generally lower transit fares) - but willful fare evasion should be punished to the maximum penalty. Paying fare isn't a nicety, it is a requirement. Add a charge of public disturbance to it.

AoD

 

[W. K. Lis]

Double thread posting

Due to the on going problem on Queen st., the CLRVs that were scheduled to run on Saturday have been canceled. Unknown at this time for Sunday. They will still run on Bathurst.

The problem has been found. Bad joint. Empty car fine. Fully loaded car not so much.

Hey man! That's some bad joint we have to do that. First time? Or when you're fully loaded?

From link.

 

[JamesKoole]

It’s evidently a common trend for young people to fare evade these days. The whole free transit movements in the NE US are largely run by younger individuals. Nothing special is happening here, just some pricks who think they are better than everyone else and fall into the same category of low-income people who actually have a fair justification for fare evading.

Indeed co-workers in the millennial age group openly talk about how they don't pay for transit. "Why should I?" is the common reaction when I question why they seem unwilling to pay for their rides.

 

[tmlittle]

From BlogTO (my bad, I know):

Viral video shows mass fare evasion at Toronto subway station

Viral footage of what appears to be dozens of young people running onto a Toronto subway train without paying is attracting praise from Chile, of a...

www.blogto.com

AoD

I support this action 100%. This kind of stuff is the only way free transit will eventually become a reality.

 

[Richard White]

Indeed co-workers in the millennial age group openly talk about how they don't pay for transit. "Why should I?" is the common reaction when I question why they seem unwilling to pay for their rides.

They really to do enforcement like they do in Budapest, Hungary. If you are caught not paying a fare you will be pulled aside and fined on the spot. If you refuse to pay you are arrested for fare evasion.

 

[Johnny Au]

Jane, Runnymede, and Dufferin stations (and a few others) may need to be redesigned, even if it means tunnels to fare-paid bus terminals.

But again, fare evasion can cost less to the TTC than it is to hire fare inspectors.

 

[smallspy]

The problem has been found. Bad joint. Empty car fine. Fully loaded car not so much.

While it is true that they found the issue, the rail itself was not the problem.

A concrete slab within the ROW on the west side of the Don Bridge was loose, and would move 2 to 3 inches as a car travelled over top of it. This was enough to cause it to contact the track brake on the left sides of the cars, breaking a couple of the mounting brackets in the process.

They've now fixed it, which is why there are cars back out on Queen today. The cars however will take a bit longer, as the TTC does not have many brackets storage.

Dan

 

[DSC]

While it is true that they found the issue, the rail itself was not the problem.

A concrete slab within the ROW on the west side of the Don Bridge was loose, and would move 2 to 3 inches as a car travelled over top of it. This was enough to cause it to contact the track brake on the left sides of the cars, breaking a couple of the mounting brackets in the process.

They've now fixed it, which is why there are cars back out on Queen today. The cars however will take a bit longer, as the TTC does not have many brackets storage.

Dan

I am not surprised, as I said earlier, the concrete around many TTC tracks is in very poor condition and they seem to have no interest in maintaining it properly. One would have thought they should have a crew working all summer just making minor repairs to concrete around tracks and patrolling the whole network. They seem to wait until it is in VERY poor condition and either put asphalt on top (which soon breaks up as the broken concrete keep shifting!) or MAYBE replace the concrete. There are lots of sections like this on King and there were some very bad sections on the new track on Leslie that they appeared to be fixing properly last week.

Interesting it did not seem to affect 504 that also uses the Queen @ Don track.

 

[Northern Light]

While it is true that they found the issue, the rail itself was not the problem.

A concrete slab within the ROW on the west side of the Don Bridge was loose, and would move 2 to 3 inches as a car travelled over top of it. This was enough to cause it to contact the track brake on the left sides of the cars, breaking a couple of the mounting brackets in the process.

They've now fixed it, which is why there are cars back out on Queen today. The cars however will take a bit longer, as the TTC does not have many brackets storage.

Dan

I am not surprised, as I said earlier, the concrete around many TTC tracks is in very poor condition and they seem to have no interest in maintaining it properly. One would have thought they should have a crew working all summer just making minor repairs to concrete around tracks and patrolling the whole network. They seem to wait until it is in VERY poor condition and either put asphalt on top (which soon breaks up as the broken concrete keep shifting!) or MAYBE replace the concrete. There are lots of sections like this on King and there were some very bad sections on the new track on Leslie that they appeared to be fixing properly last week.

Interesting it did not seem to affect 504 that also uses the Queen @ Don track.

Question, does anyone know if the concrete is more or less of a maintenance problem than the cobblestone used to be?

I've argued for going back to it in the past, strictly as a way to discourage competing traffic on streetcar routes, and for aesthetics; but not sure what the reliability and maintenance challenges were like.

 

[DSC]

Question, does anyone know if the concrete is more or less of a maintenance problem than the cobblestone used to be?

I've argued for going back to in the past, strictly was a way to discourage competing traffic on streetcar routes, and for aesthetics; but not sure what the reliability and maintenance challenges were like.

I suspect its more a quality of initial workmanship. If concrete is properly made and laid and allowed to cure it is probably stronger than cobblestones which need to be 'contained' at the edges. Cobblestones might work well in between the rails, not so sure about along the edges - where most of the concrete problems seem to occur. (And which do probably get more stress.) I also suspect that finding qualified cobble stone (square sett) installers might be more of a problem than finding people to lay concrete properly.

 

[CityStay]

Toronto Transit Chaos explained.

https://soundcloud.com/spacingradio%2Fepisode-041-torontos-endless-transit-circus

 

[W. K. Lis]

OK class. Time now for a history lesson on the TTC token, or more properly, tokens (plural).

A Brief History of TTC tokens.

See link, from 2012.

The little coins date back to the 1950s when counterfeiters were becoming increasingly adept at forging paper tickets and the TTC was keen to update its fare payment system for the opening of the Yonge subway. It would be a while before crafty crooks would find a way to skip out on fares, but they got there in the end.

Getting the first batch of 10 million tokens made wasn't without controversy. Local stamping businesses cried foul when the TTC awarded the contract to Southam Press Co., a Montreal firm, without properly circulating the specifications locally. Two owners quoted in the Toronto Star said they had bid assuming the coins would be approximately the size and weight of a nickel. Southam Press won because their lowest bid correctly established the roughly dime-sized proportions.

The first fares paid with a dedicated coin were pushed into brand new automatic turnstiles under Yonge street when Canada's first subway opened in 1954. An instructional leaflet circulated at the time told passengers how to purchase a token from an automatic machine (one for 15 cents, four for 60) and proceed into the underground. For nostalgia buffs, two of these original-style turnstiles are still in place at Sherbourne station.

The first generation tokens were made of aluminum with a simple "good for one fare" message stamped on the verso. In case anyone got confused by the concept, special guides were on hand to answer questions and explain the idea of a valueless coin to commuters.

The TTC introduced a fare zone system - an idea it would tweak over the years - in 1954 that offered five tokens for 50 cents instead of three for a quarter. It was only the second fare hike in the Commission's history and was naturally met with some resistance. The "single-fare zone" encompassed Forest Hill, Leaside, East York, Swansea, and the core of the city; travel to the townships outside required a second coin. Despite the concerns, the Star promised "Toronto will likely still hold the lead for efficient and inexpensive transportation."

The automatic vending machines, which were beset with technical problems from day one, couldn't be recalibrated to dispense more tokens under the new system and the TTC seriously considered ditching the three-month old tokens altogether. The machines were so bad that maintenance crews worked nights just to keep them running.

The automatic dispensers were removed for several months to iron out these kinks while an experimental single token dispenser was tested at King station in 1960.

During this time it was possible to buy tokens in any amount from the ticket booth at subway stations and from guides. For reasons that aren't entirely clear, disgruntled TTC workers occasionally refused to do sell single tokens, prompting reprimands and a note in the newspaper.

As the value of a token increased with each fare hike, the TTC had to adapt the way it operated to prevent people buying in bulk and hoarding the coins for months, something that continues to be a problem. As their popularity grew, customers complained the dime-sized pieces were too easy to mix up with regular change and so square and even triangular replacements were considered.

Instead, the solution came in the form of a red paper container with the druggy name "Tokestrip" which was capable of holding seven tokens and cost a $1 with all purchases of multiple tokens. This was later replaced with a plastic version sponsored by the Bank of Montreal, much to the annoyance of Peter H. Storm, the lone man making them. "The public simply won't be bothered with these new containers," he confidently declared, assuming the public would rage for his tear-off container's return. They didn't.

 

[Streety McCarface]

OK class. Time now for a history lesson on the TTC token, or more properly, tokens (plural).

A Brief History of TTC tokens.

See link, from 2012.

They will be missed. Presto boils my blood far too often.

 

[smallspy]

I am not surprised, as I said earlier, the concrete around many TTC tracks is in very poor condition and they seem to have no interest in maintaining it properly. One would have thought they should have a crew working all summer just making minor repairs to concrete around tracks and patrolling the whole network. They seem to wait until it is in VERY poor condition and either put asphalt on top (which soon breaks up as the broken concrete keep shifting!) or MAYBE replace the concrete. There are lots of sections like this on King and there were some very bad sections on the new track on Leslie that they appeared to be fixing properly last week.

I wouldn't say as a blanket statement that ALL of the concrete around the rail is in bad shape. There are some portions that are in worse shape than others, sure - but generally that's a factor more of the age of concrete and a function of the design of the trackbed than anything. As a rule, the track installed with the newer RETRAC method has seemed to have held up better than the older methods, with the exception of the stretch along Leslie.

Interesting it did not seem to affect 504 that also uses the Queen @ Don track.

The stretch in question is to the west of where the 504 comes off of the bridge. Thus 504s don't use that section.

Question, does anyone know if the concrete is more or less of a maintenance problem than the cobblestone used to be?

I've argued for going back to it in the past, strictly as a way to discourage competing traffic on streetcar routes, and for aesthetics; but not sure what the reliability and maintenance challenges were like.

Cobblestones were far more maintenance intensive than the concrete is. Even with cementing mortar, they would heave and sink far more than concrete ever will. Their only advantage is that they could be placed while the streetcars were still running on the tracks around them, whereas concrete needs to be kept free of vibration while it cures.

That said, there's no reason why they couldn't use a patterned finish on the concrete within the ROW to achieve the means you wish.

Dan

 

[DSC]

Thanks for your, as always, useful and knowledgeable, comments!

I wouldn't say as a blanket statement that ALL of the concrete around the rail is in bad shape. There are some portions that are in worse shape than others, sure - but generally that's a factor more of the age of concrete and a function of the design of the trackbed than anything. As a rule, the track installed with the newer RETRAC method has seemed to have held up better than the older methods, with the exception of the stretch along Leslie.

I did not say that ALL of the concrete is bad (most is fine) but there are bad sections, mainly along the outer side of the rails. On King downtown (where most of the track is about 15 years old) there are lots of (fairly short) deteriorated sections. It surely would be better for TTC and other vehicles (and cyclists) if the TTC made permanent repairs on an ongoing basis. Now they (or the City) put asphalt patches which do not last. and the deteriorated sections grow larger year after year (look at the block from George to Frederick or in front of BMO.)

The stretch in question is to the west of where the 504 comes off of the bridge. Thus 504s don't use that section.

Yes, agreed!

Cobblestones were far more maintenance intensive than the concrete is. Even with cementing mortar, they would heave and sink far more than concrete ever will. Their only advantage is that they could be placed while the streetcars were still running on the tracks around them, whereas concrete needs to be kept free of vibration while it cures.

That said, there's no reason why they couldn't use a patterned finish on the concrete within the ROW to achieve the means you wish.

Good idea, at least in some locations..

Dan