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raptor
Senior Member
Can someone explain to me how is this not corruption / political interference?
drum118
Superstar
muller877
Senior Member
Unless Philippe Champagne (or the Liberal Party) receives some benefit from BBD it is not corruption.
I find it amusing that they are OK with forcing Ontario to sole-source contracts but they let Quebec go for the best deal. There is always a double standard for Quebec within the Liberal Party
nfitz
Superstar
Mostly to score points in the 2019 election with Ontario votes - particularly in the two (currently Liberal) Thunder Bay ridings I'd think.
But hey, if we can get another couple of dozen streetcars out of it - bonus! What's that - 4 months of production?
drum118
Superstar
The only way we will see more cars ASP is if the Fed's pickup the full cost for them. Since TTC took money in place of cars, they are saying we don't want more headaches than what we have now and we need to look at another supplier for the other cars.
Then you got Ford who doesn't like Streetcars in the first place, why should he protect liberal seats when he wants PC having those seats in the first place.
If the Feds wants to keep their seats, they need to order the cars yesterday and not going to happen.
The backlog at Thunder Bay is empty with no new orders insight doesn't bold well for the plant. Given its age and locations, time to close the doors.
If the Ontario Line is to see Sky Train, they will be built in Kingston.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The Thunder Bay plant makes commuter coaches (think GO) for other places than Ontario. They are also making Flexity Freedom vehicles for Edmonton, for delivery by 2020. You can download their 22 page list of world-wide projects from this link.
nfitz
Superstar
The only Edmonton vehicle so far was built in Kingston. Are many more GO coaches coming? - I'd think wth the Corridor operations tender out-to-market, there wouldn't be anything else ordered until that goes into effect in 2022 or 2023?
I can't see them using Skytrain equipment on the Ontario line now that we know there are significant outdoor sections. Also the trains are very narrow, significantly reducing the capacity, requiring longer platforms for the same capacity!
drum118
Superstar
Both Edmonton and Metrolinx cars are coming from Kingston and why the long time frame between TTC cars from there.
Don't know of any other NA system looking for more cars from Thunder Bay and if so, has to be 70% Buy America requirement.
The last batch of GO cars are to be done this year, if not done so by now.
Big mistake to go with Skytrain for any of TTC plan lines, as it will never meet ridership needs from day one.
Until a tender is issue for RER rolling stock and assuming BBD gets the order, going be a few years before production starts on them. Other than refurbishing existing GO equipment, the plant is dead by the end of the year.
nfitz
Superstar
Did they even bid on that contract?
Is that contract proceeding and not part of the Progressive Conservative cuts to GO Transit?
dowlingm
Senior Member
The Buy America requirement is only where federal funding is being granted and a waiver is not granted. It does not apply to all purchases (although financial realities means it does apply to most).
What we might see with the just announced 36 bilevels GO put on order is a displacement of some of their older cars into the US resale market, where the acquisition cost may not require agencies to seek such federal help.
What we might see with the just announced 36 bilevels GO put on order is a displacement of some of their older cars into the US resale market, where the acquisition cost may not require agencies to seek such federal help.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Because Canada is not a member of the European Union and thus State Aid regulations are less strict here?
(By the way, to keep us nearer topic, it looks like 4548 went into service on the 504 today.)
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nfitz
Superstar
You should see a federal government tender these days, and all the various trade agreements (some I've never even heard of) it name checks!
However, there's an existing contract ...with options. I don't think any rules would be broken.
drum118
Superstar
Yep, 4548 is in service on 504B
4550 is now tracking
4551 and 4575 were out most the day and night testing.
4549 GPS is out side the city and the next car to enter service Thursday or Friday.
4543 must have a major issue for it not been seen in 23 day, as well being here since April 29. That 40 days so far.
4550 is now tracking
4551 and 4575 were out most the day and night testing.
4549 GPS is out side the city and the next car to enter service Thursday or Friday.
4543 must have a major issue for it not been seen in 23 day, as well being here since April 29. That 40 days so far.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Given its age and locations, time to close the doors
I find it interesting, almost a Canadian or at least Ontario thing, that a manufacturing plant's location seems to render it unsuitable for existence. Perhaps it's a function of our population and market distribution. A few years ago, a bike trip took me through Marion Ohio, a city about 1/3 the size of Thunder Bay (~32K vs. ~108K), and host to both a railcar plant (Union Tank Car) and a durable goods manufacturer (Whirlpool). Not on an Interstate. Heck, little La Pocatiere, 5K, way down the other side of Quebec City and originally built to make snowmobiles , manages to host Bormbardier.
I find it interesting, almost a Canadian or at least Ontario thing, that a manufacturing plant's location seems to render it unsuitable for existence. Perhaps it's a function of our population and market distribution. A few years ago, a bike trip took me through Marion Ohio, a city about 1/3 the size of Thunder Bay (~32K vs. ~108K), and host to both a railcar plant (Union Tank Car) and a durable goods manufacturer (Whirlpool). Not on an Interstate. Heck, little La Pocatiere, 5K, way down the other side of Quebec City and originally built to make snowmobiles , manages to host Bormbardier.