TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[299 bloor call control.]

Everytime I hear Bombardier's union or Thunder Bay's mayor speak, I have to cringe. They have this disgusting sense of entitlement that they should get the contract just because they're already here. Well, guess what? You're already building the subway cars, you're building GO Bi-Level cars, it's time for a new and proven builder to come in as well. That is the truest sense of leveling the playing field, and Siemens opening a new plant is the best thing this province can ask for - especially when more and more contracts are going to come up as the RTP advances.

 

[kEiThZ]

^ Well said. And if they are willing to open the plant in the GTA, well isn't that better for us than shipping jobs off to Thunder Bay?

 

[nfitz]

^ Well said. And if they are willing to open the plant in the GTA, well isn't that better for us than shipping jobs off to Thunder Bay?

Makes sense to me. Why should we be propping up the economy half-way across the country when the unemployment rate here is higher than it is there! We already provide a lot of business to Thunder Bay - and presumably with all the talk of a Yonge subway extension and a DRL line, there will be more orders to come from there.

Presumably Bombarider will also be getting the Scarborough and Eglinton RT vehicles as well - if that's the chosen technology and these are partially assembled in Thunder Bay as well.

So from that perspective I'd say go with Siemens.

However that shouldn't be the primary factor.

One comment ... "Customers will find (them) more comfortable than the current fleet" ... hmm, given how much more comfortable the existing fleet is than the recent TTC bus purchases (I can barely fit in those @#$ seats, and I'm a bit shorter than average, and certainly not overweight) ... that doesn't give me a lot of ... umm ... comfort.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Have you noticed that on photographs for both builders' vehicles, that the wheels are covered? Those covers make those vehicles look "cleaner", I hope we keep them.
Another point, with the large windows, will the inside lighting be always on?
With delivery coming in 2010, should we start to convert from "Pay Enter" to "Proof of Payment" soon? The drivers, with the new vehicles, will only be driving, not collecting fares.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Everytime I hear Bombardier's union or Thunder Bay's mayor speak, I have to cringe. They have this disgusting sense of entitlement that they should get the contract just because they're already here. Well, guess what? You're already building the subway cars, you're building GO Bi-Level cars, it's time for a new and proven builder to come in as well. That is the truest sense of leveling the playing field, and Siemens opening a new plant is the best thing this province can ask for - especially when more and more contracts are going to come up as the RTP advances.

I was thinking this, but I just really like Bombardier's vehicles better. Whatever they choose, I'll still just be glad to get new vehicles anyways

 

[kEiThZ]

I am still a fan of Bombardier's Primove. It would have been awesome to be wire free. I really find some of the wiring for streetcars in some areas to be really unsightly. I wonder how the cost works out for that system. Does the payoff from not having poles and overhead wiring to maintain compare favourably to the cost of having that inductive power transfer system?

 

[299 bloor call control.]

With delivery coming in 2010, should we start to convert from "Pay Enter" to "Proof of Payment" soon? The drivers, with the new vehicles, will only be driving, not collecting fares.

Proof of Payment for Transit City and all streetcar lines is currently under study, with a report to the Commission expected later this year on how to implement it. It shouldn't be a problem for Transit City, since the system can be designed into the platforms. For the existing system, it will take some innovation, considering the challenges to retrofit all existing stops or to put TVMs onboard all vehicles. The problem with TVMing vehicles is that fare evaders could theoretically never buy a ticket unless they see a fare checker board, while the problem with retrofitting stops is the sheer number of them - though a simple system would be to integrate them with the existing parking ticket machines.

Lets see what they (McCormick Rankin) come up with.

 

[299 bloor call control.]

I was thinking this, but I just really like Bombardier's vehicles better. Whatever they choose, I'll still just be glad to get new vehicles anyways

I've ridden Siemens brand new LRVs in Edmonton and they're incredibly smooth, comfortable, and nice vehicles. They're both high quality manufacturers. That being said - Edmonton and Calgary are also on major expansions of their LRT systems - they currently sole source their vehicles to Siemens - we could be building those vehicles in the GTA too, and not in Sacramento/San Diego as they are now.

 

[TOareaFan]

^ Well said. And if they are willing to open the plant in the GTA, well isn't that better for us than shipping jobs off to Thunder Bay?

Wonder if you could convert an auto plant to streetcar production?

GM/Chrysler....you want aid? If you close a plant in Brampton or Oshawa but agree to lease it on reasonable terms to a company going to build jobs and streetcars.....we might pony up some cash to support the other non-closed auto plants.

 

[Automation Gallery]

I am still a fan of Bombardier's Primove. It would have been awesome to be wire free. I really find some of the wiring for streetcars in some areas to be really unsightly. I wonder how the cost works out for that system. Does the payoff from not having poles and overhead wiring to maintain compare favourably to the cost of having that inductive power transfer system?

I am all for it, here are some advantages that would probably make it overall cheaper on a (new proposed LRT system) for a city like Toronto.

Advantages for the Transportation Company
Advantages of the Primove system are:

Easy installation
No overhead cables
Immunity to weather conditions – frozen cables, etc.
Less wear due to contact-less energy transfer
Smaller tram tunnels, because no overhead cabling is required
Less maintenance

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgu...ges?q=Bombardier%27s+Primove&gbv=2&hl=en&sa=G

 

[kettal]

Proof of Payment for Transit City and all streetcar lines is currently under study, with a report to the Commission expected later this year on how to implement it. It shouldn't be a problem for Transit City, since the system can be designed into the platforms. For the existing system, it will take some innovation, considering the challenges to retrofit all existing stops or to put TVMs onboard all vehicles. The problem with TVMing vehicles is that fare evaders could theoretically never buy a ticket unless they see a fare checker board, while the problem with retrofitting stops is the sheer number of them - though a simple system would be to integrate them with the existing parking ticket machines.

Lets see what they (McCormick Rankin) come up with.

In Melbourne's trams, the best way to do it is to buy an unvalidated ticket, and only validate it when you see a fare checker. Buying onboard, while possible, requires a lot of skill not to appear like you are an evader.

 

[W. K. Lis]

One problem with the current "Proof of Payment" (POP) on the 501 Queen, is that the driver has to consciously open the center and rear doors (all doors).
You maybe already familiar with the pressing of a button to request stopping at the next stop. I have seen videos where buttons which have to be pressed to open the door from the outside on request, if all the doors don't open.
I would have thought the TTC would have added open door buttons of our current LRV fleet.

 

[Voltz]

One problem with the current "Proof of Payment" (POP) on the 501 Queen, is that the driver has to consciously open the center and rear doors (all doors).
You maybe already familiar with the pressing of a button to request stopping at the next stop. I have seen videos where buttons which have to be pressed to open the door from the outside on request, if all the doors don't open.
I would have thought the TTC would have added open door buttons of our current LRV fleet.

I'd like door open buttons on the inside and outside for the new cars, that way, during off peak hours, all four doors don't have to open for one person and let a lot of cold air in or out.

 

[smuncky]

I'd like door open buttons on the inside and outside for the new cars, that way, during off peak hours, all four doors don't have to open for one person and let a lot of cold air in or out.

i never understood why the buttons on the viva buses aren't activated. if they're there, why not use them?

 

[drum118]

One problem with the current "Proof of Payment" (POP) on the 501 Queen, is that the driver has to consciously open the center and rear doors (all doors).
You maybe already familiar with the pressing of a button to request stopping at the next stop. I have seen videos where buttons which have to be pressed to open the door from the outside on request, if all the doors don't open.
I would have thought the TTC would have added open door buttons of our current LRV fleet.

Buffalo LRT's have the outside button as well GO Coaches.