TOareaFan
Superstar
What a dangerous tweet that is. "no tickets will be issued until September" just created a 2 week fare holiday on the Queen Street car!
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What a dangerous tweet that is. "no tickets will be issued until September" just created a 2 week fare holiday on the Queen Street car!
DSC
Superstar
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The Queen route has been POP for a LONG time - well over 10 years. I have never seen or heard of an inspector on it and as operators do not force transfers onto those paying with tokens/tickets/cash a fair proportion of customers have never had proof. The TTC is wise not to move directly from no enforcement to total enforcement and should also insist operators give transfers to those needing them.
P23
Active Member
Pretty funny that people have to get used to fare enforcement. It always perplexed me that there was absolutely no enforcement here, when I lived in Ottawa you saw the officers quite frequently and they almost always caught someone skipping fare. Of course in Ottawa they also had other advanced things like time based transfers and all door boarding for about a decade.
TOareaFan
Superstar
nfitz
Superstar
Given we're coming to the end of a 25-year fare holiday, I don't think 2 weeks in August will kill anyone. Given the amount of flashing of transfers and passes I see from those boarding the back doors of a 504 at a busy stop, I'd say most people are decent.
Most people aren't shit.
The alternative is, you go hardline from day one. That's not a very good option either.
You know there's going to be whining when they finally start handing out 3-digit fines ...
cplchanb
Senior Member
FAMILiarization on Standard Operating Procedures
by new policy I also implied the eventual all door boarding with the new streetcars
TOareaFan
Superstar
I think the alternative is an announcement that discretion will be used until September.....only two weeks but announcing that no tickets will be issued is (IMO) too broad a brush.
nfitz
Superstar
I'd suggest avoiding unnecessary acronyms for clarity. I've seen SOP before, but SOPs is less common. I can't say I've ever seen familiarization abbreviated as famil.
ksun
Senior Member
well, how do you know those transfers haven't expired, or worse from 3 days ago?
people do this all the time. during rush hours, ttc workers on streetcar/subway simply don't have to check each of them.
why not? It is not like it is a new policy. You skip fare, you pay the fine. there is nothing hardline about that.
Not keeping the POP is equivalent to fare skipping.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I just encountered a team of fare inspectors on the Queen Streetcar, 5 in total (two standing next to the rear doors, two next to the middle doors, and one that I think was a police officer next to the front door). Nobody was given a ticket in the 10 minutes they were there, but they cause quite an impression when you get on the streetcar, like there has been a crime on board.
I took a photo of them when they got off.
How much are we paying that officer to stand there? Isn't there something better they could be doing? I hope the TTC isn't planning on bringing them on all their fare evasion raids.
AlbertHWagstaff
Senior Member
The officer may have simply been taking the streetcar to get somewhere. We don't know what they were doing there.
nfitz
Superstar
Given we're at a transfer spot, and I see these same people rushing from other vehicles. None. Also the driver never actually watches those boarding a the back. I seldom ever show anything ... the driver isn't asking for that. Though often my pass is still in my hand, because I haven't had a chance to put it away yet ...
Because you piss off people, they phone the politicians, and you find yourself on the front of the Toronto Star.
It's plain common sense. We don't live in a police state after all!
FNTS
Active Member
The police officer (at least he looked like one) had a bagde or something similar that read "Transit Enforcement", and they all got off together and walked together for a couple of blocks.
https://www.ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/Safety_and_Security/Transit_Enforcement_Unit.jsp
"TTC Transit Enforcement Officers work in partnership with the Toronto, Peel, and York Regional Police Services and with the community to put your safety and security first, system-wide (including TTC routes outside Toronto)."
Could it have been one of the "Constables" that Andy Byford wanted to bring back? The others were wearing grey shirts and caps.
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ksun
Senior Member
pissed off because of being caught evading fare? Drivers who are caught speeding usually get pissed off too.
Phone the politicians for what, being fined for fare evasion?
Was it you who argues strongly in my post about ttc loopholes that fare evading is a crime? I could be wrong though but to fine people for doing something wrong doesn't constitute police state.
nfitz
Superstar
It does when you suddenly hardline enforce a rule that hasn't been enforced for years. When you go to trial, you could call thousands of witnesses who would say that they've taken 501 many times and not once has the driver said they should take transfer. The crown would know this and know they couldn't get a conviction. It get's tossed.
Surely doing this slowly and methodically and making it clear where this is going, and establishing a clear record of warnings, and giving drivers a chance to start communicating the issue to passengers, is going to let them get a conviction when they start dishing out fines in a few week.