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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

TheTigerMaster said:
That wasn't the problem I was thinking of.

What if the streetcar is so crowded that passengers can't make it to the payment machine? I've been on rush hour streetcars where it is next to impossible to move a single step in any direction. In situations like that it is unreasonable to expect passengers to fight their way throught the streetcar to make a payment
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Hmm, I defintely didn't read your post as thoroughly as I should have, my bad. Well most people use metropasses or will have a transfer, and the SRVMs are near the doors, with lots of space around them. It shouldn't be too hard, even in a crowded vehicle, to get to them.

Hopefully the capacity improvements on the new streetcars will limit their crowding, at least until we move to fully using presto. At that point this shouldn't be as big an issue, as everyone will just tap on the presto readers by the doors when they board.

Maybe I'm also too optimistic about everything...
 
rbt said:
There are going to be fare machines on the streetcar so they can do exactly that; cash or token at first and Presto by end of year.

The street-side machines are for additional capacity so lines don't form on the vehicles.
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Oh...that is good...gonna be a lot of work installing all those machines in all the old streetcars by January 1, 2015!
 
TheTigerMaster said:
That is almost exactly what happened to me when dealing with the Yonge Subway shuttle a few months ago. The on-street TTC staff made customers board through the rear door, leaving us with no way to pay a fare (there was no way to get to the the fare box). I'm still not sure how or where I was supposed to pay my fare.
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In these situations where a subway line is down they aren't really concerned about fares, just moving people.
 
TOareaFan said:
Oh...that is good...gonna be a lot of work installing all those machines in all the old streetcars by January 1, 2015!
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They're already installed on the old streetcars. Coincidently, they also drive the streetcar, and sometimes take Timmies breaks :)
 
JasonParis said:
In these situations where a subway line is down they aren't really concerned about fares, just moving people.
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Which is the right priority ordering. If a few people get a trip without paying, but it allows them to move people more effectively, that's a great trade-off. As long as the majority of people pay most of the time, it's acceptable.

In the cases with the subway is shut down, they often allow people into both the subway or bus without fares or transfers. It would be impractical to enforce it strictly, or to give everyone transferring between the shuttle bus and subways a transfer.

They should do the same thing for bus routes for major events that aren't near the subway like the Beaches Jazz Fest. When moving massive amounts of people, it's not effective to have everyone line up and pay their fare one by one.
 
TOareaFan said:
They do all of that from the middle doors? Wow...we don't pay them enough.
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With the old ones only metropass and transfer holders can get on at the rear/middle doors. Those paying token or cash get a transfer at the front. It still works since a huge % of people have metropasses.
 
TOareaFan said:
Oh...that is good...gonna be a lot of work installing all those machines in all the old streetcars by January 1, 2015!
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That won't happen. Users paying on the old streetcars will still enter through the front doors to pay.
 
rbt said:
That won't happen. Users paying on the old streetcars will still enter through the front doors to pay.
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The discussion you joined was about accidental fare evasion....someone noted that when the system wide streetcar PoP goes into effect on January 1 2015 they hoped there was some leniency for accidental evasion...someone else said there was no such thing as accidental evasion...I gave the example of a tourist that might follow the crowd onto the car at the middle assuming there would be a way to pay...you jumped in and said there would be.

Yes, locals will (should) know that if you are entering an old car and have to pay you should get on at the front regardless of PoP existing....but not all riders will be (or should be expected to be) as knowledgeable about how our system (or that one aspect of our system) works.
 
TOareaFan said:
Someone (particularly, say, a visitor/tourist) may see people boarding by the back doors and assume there must be a way to pay once you get on the streetcar and get on and see no way to do that without fighting their way back up through the jammed car to the driver.....that might an accidental fare evasion.
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Good point. I would hope that they will have signage on the back doors indicating the appropriate information.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
We know for certain that won't be the case at least for the next few years. I'm not even sure if the Commission ever plans to have a fare machine at every single stop. Seems like a waste of money to me.
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It says in the report there will be machines at 8 stops along Spadina installed this month.

It won't be every stop but the popular ones should have it.
 
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