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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

hawc said:
Carlton 4 to 5 years from now!?!?! What a joke. It's a super busy route. We need them now.

St. Clair still 3 to 4 years away?!
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I share your frustration. What I'm hoping for is that the new cars allow them to use more of the older cars for routes like St Clair & College to improve service. I have no idea if that could happen though, given how old & falling apart the old cars are.
 
That is the plan, the old cars will be retired at a rate of roughly 2:1 from my understanding. (2 new ones and 1 old one retired)

This means that there will be plenty of capacity increases incoming.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Why spread out over five years? This is why people make fun of the TTC ehlow. I bet you the whole order will be in and sitting in garages before 2019
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Production by Bombardier. I don't think the TTC would want to hoard and then bring them out, aside from what was going to be initial run.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Why spread out over five years? This is why people make fun of the TTC ehlow. I bet you the whole order will be in and sitting in garages before 2019
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It's not all that spread out. Money flow is always a consideration though; spread out deliveries and you spread out payments.

Toronto Rockets (234 cars) began testing in 2009 and went into service in 2010 and they're still arriving. These are much simpler, and cheaper, cars than the LRVs.
 
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rbt said:
It's not all that spread out. Money flow is always a consideration though; spread out deliveries and you spread out payments.

Toronto Rockets (234 cars) began testing in 2009 and went into service in 2010 and they're still arriving. These are much simpler, and cheaper, cars than the LRVs.
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Really? Streetcars are outside so I would think they would be easier to implement.


And the subways, I'm shocked the old T1's are still on the Bloor Danforth, but I guess that's due to what you said.
 
Look on the bright side 6-ers:

Only one month till the finally start using the new streetcars.

New streetcars only happen once every 30 years, so it should be an exciting event for those who are excited by transit ;).

It should be a big improvement to our streetcar system: larger capacity, air conditioning, low floor all door & POP to reduce dwell times, more reliable in the winter, huge windows.

Once the Bombardier strike is resolved, it should be continuous improvement over the next few years while the new vehicles are rolled out.
Just like the subway system now: Yonge is almost all new vehicles now, and the Bloor line gets the old Yonge lines and gets to throw out the old unreliable vehicles.

Lots of things to look forward to over the next few years: Union station 2nd platform opening & other union station improvements, UP Express opening, Spadina & Queens Quay loop end of Aug. Queens Quay streetcar will re-open October, the whole street is being re-constructed. Then, a whole new subway extension of 6 stations opening! And they will be palaces! ;) We'll all go to Vaughan and see what's up there.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Really? Streetcars are outside so I would think they would be easier to implement.
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Streetcars have all of the problems of interacting with traffic, running in tunnels, tighter horizontal/vertical turn tolerances, higher power requirements (larger motor size), lack of high platforms, and other things in a single package. Also, the LRT is generally larger than a single subway car and probably has more electronics/components since they need to be self-contained. The middle 4 cars on a Toronto Rocket appear on the surface to be pretty darn simple.

One obvious example of the turn tolerance impacts the design; Toronto rockets have 5 bends per 6 cars but the streetcars have 24 bends per 6 cars. Not that we'll ever have a 6-car streetcar train but since we've ordered roughly 200 of each type of car it seems reasonable to compare them that way.

Rockets also have the benefit of some components being in the track/control room. For example, the train doesn't need to tell the switch when to change, it just follows the track. Streetcars need to direct the track on where to be and for Eglinton LRVs follow signalling/automation direction as well.
 
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denfromoakvillemilton said:
So when will these streetcars be on all routes?
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This is the revised schedule is looking like

510 Spadina: 2014
511 Bathurst: 2015
509 Harbourfront: 2016
505 Dundas: 2017/2018
501 Queen / 508 Lake Shore: 2018/2019/2020/2021
504 King: 2022/2023/2024/2025
512 St Clair: 2026/2027
502 Downtowner: 2028
503 Kingston Rd: 2028
506 Carlton: 2028/2029/2030

This is why you don't sole source anything.

Folks could be riding articulated buses by now.
 
Forgotten said:
This is the revised schedule is looking like

510 Spadina: 2014
511 Bathurst: 2015
509 Harbourfront: 2016
505 Dundas: 2017/2018
501 Queen / 508 Lake Shore: 2018/2019/2020/2021
504 King: 2022/2023/2024/2025
512 St Clair: 2026/2027
502 Downtowner: 2028
503 Kingston Rd: 2028
506 Carlton: 2028/2029/2030

This is why you don't sole source anything.

Folks could be riding articulated buses by now.
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It's a schedule like this that makes me believe even more that the Big Move would be a much easier sell in the GTA and other parts of the Province if the manufacturing of all the vehicles that will be required is spread out over the Province (Windsor, Oshawa, etc) instead of being concentrated in Thunder Bay. Think of the benefit that having former auto workers making transit vehicles could have on the economy and the perception of the Big Moves in those areas.
 
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