ehlow
Senior Member
Really? Why would it be faster?
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Really? Why would it be faster?
Riverdale Rink Rat
Senior Member
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Where do you grab the streetcar? How long is the normal streetcar ride so that you can get 20mn of savings? I'm genuinely curious, because that's a huge proportional saving of time unless you're coming from New Toronto or somewhere else at the end of the line.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
I also found the Queens Quay replacement bus on Lakeshore to be much faster than the streetcars that used to run on Queens Quay. (Eastbound only... westbound is a disaster without Streetcars)
Part of the reason why it was faster had to do with less passengers, and less stops. More people choose to walk now instead of taking the bus to Union.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Busses throughout Toronto are on average faster than streetcars. 20 kph vs 14 kph.
However, urban (downtown) bus routes are slower than streetcars. Downtown busse routes have an average speed of 11 to 14 kph, while streetcar routes have a speed of 11 to 16 kph.
However, urban (downtown) bus routes are slower than streetcars. Downtown busse routes have an average speed of 11 to 14 kph, while streetcar routes have a speed of 11 to 16 kph.
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ehlow
Senior Member
Well obviously buses in the suburbs would be faster than a streetcar downtown. Buses in the suburbs would also be faster than buses downtown.
The question is, on the exact same route, same fare policy etc, would there be a speed difference between the two vehicles? If so why?
nfitz
Superstar
That certainly doesn't match what I've seen. I've seen the 501 streetcar overtaking the 502/503 replacement buses on Queen East last summer.
When and where did you see this?
Fred.S
Active Member
Being a daily rider during the last few months, I noticed the streetcar and replacement bus to be about the same east of Broadview. A good time to compare was during the week between the Leslie and Broadview closures, where both streetcars and buses were running the exact same route along Queen between Church and Kingston. However, west of Broadview, the bus was much faster, mainly due to fact that the streetcar has to crawl over the Queen bridge, and gets stuck behind diverting 504 traffic turning south at Parliament.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The 509 replacement bus was painful. Especially during Exhibition.
Filip
Senior Member
Mimico to downtown. I've walked faster than the streetcar on Queen so this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. It's a solid 10 mins in traffic for the streetcar to make it through the Jameson/Queen clusterfuck. The bus just hops to the right lane and voila, it's cleared the intersection.
Left turning vehicles are the problem, but what are you going to do?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Ban left turns?
ehlow
Senior Member
Oh I see why there could be a speed difference now, thanks.
Anyways it's too late to consider switching to something like a trolley bus or regular bus since we spent so much money on new streetcars & track rebuilds.
Filip
Senior Member
I think it's a lot simpler (and less drastic than that).
I've taken the liberty to observe signal timings while stuck on the streetcar (oh the things I do when I'm stuck in traffic) and that particular intersection is purely destroyed due to inadequate light synchronization. For example, the issue is the intersection is basically Jameson to Lansdowne traffic, but due to the jog, it has to go 30m along Queen. It would make sense to have the lights 'close' Queen as traffic through Jameson/Lansdowne funnels through it, but no, it's actually disconnected and causes traffic jams. (I don't know how to explain this without visuals, but it is what it is).
In fact, 90% of the traffic issues downtown are caused by light timing. I'm surprised the city is so hellbent on not making this a priority (studies are meaningless).
jeffreym
Active Member
On a separate note, my understanding is that because funding for replacement buses comes out of the project's capital budget instead of the operating budget, service levels are way higher than would would normally be 'justified' and budgeted for if the route was regularly operated by buses.
nfitz
Superstar
Temporarily diverting 504 traffic, with the traffic light not set up to handle the left-hand turn for the streetcar. And a temporary slow order for the bridge, with all the construction going on underneath it.
There is no Queen in Mimico. Lakeshore? You've walked faster than the streetcar?
I've never taken the streetcar in Etobicoke so I can't comment. Not sure why the streetcar would be slower than a replacement bus. When I've driven along that stretch, traffic doesn't seem to have been much of a problem.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Pretty sure the light sync is improved from what it used to be. I remember going north on Jameson to Lansdowne before they recalibrated the lights, and it was always a pain. The northbound light wasn't synchronized with the left turn signal, so you would make the right turn, and then stop at the intersection to continue left at the set of lights at Lansdowne.
Today, you can go straight through as the right turn and left turn signals are on at the same time. The lights were changed because Jameson would back up traffic on Queen quite a bit since no cars would be able to turn left at Lansdowne after making a right from Jameson. So you would have a backed up Jameson, as well as a backed up Queen.
It hasn't really fixed the Queen issue, as now the streetcars are stuck behind left turning Queen cars. Banning left turns from Queen and not from Jameson would solve this problem.