TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[W. K. Lis]

The streetcars for Toronto are to be the Bombardier Outlook (single-end and TTC track gauge), while Transit City models will be the Bombardier Freedom (double-ended and standard track gauge). Even if the Freedom model had the TTC track gauge, the vehicles themselves will be too wide for downtown use. The Outlook models will be the same width as the CLRV's.

They will be two different models and will not be able to be interchangeable, except maybe for small parts.

 

[CapitalSeven]

As we recently saw in Ottawa though, assumptions about what vehicle models will be used don't always turn out to be accurate. Most people were predicting Bombardier vehicles for Ottawa's LRT, yet it wasn't until the final deal was revealed that it was shown that that wasn't the case.

It was really only a few people on this forum who assumed Ottawa was going to get Bombardier vehicles (or Metrolinx leftovers). I and others pointed out a number of times what was wrong with this idea. It turned out that Ottawa meant what it was saying.

 

[nfitz]

Are these Otttawa vehicles going to meet the Canadian content requirements, or did they get around that somehow as the bid was part of the entire line, and not just the vehicles?

 

[waterloowarrior]

Are these Otttawa vehicles going to meet the Canadian content requirements, or did they get around that somehow as the bid was part of the entire line, and not just the vehicles?

They will meet the 25% minimum, here is a quote from one of the reports

RTG is proposing a vehicle that will achieve over 25 per cent Canadian content in three
ways: first, from the resources of Alstom, the vehicle supplier already established in
Canada; second, through local sourcing; and finally, through final vehicle assembly to
take place in Ottawa.

 

[CapitalSeven]

The cars will be assembled in what will then become the maintenance facility, so it will be built fairly soon.

 

[nfitz]

The cars will be assembled in what will then become the maintenance facility, so it will be built fairly soon.

Ah, that's a neat trick. Build the maintenance facility early, and use that as the assembly line. The powers of PPP.

 

[chriskayTO]

Ok back to Toronto streetcars...

Does anyone know if reconstruction work will have to take place at Spadina station in order to accommodate the new vehicles? I'm assuming yes, however we are only a year away from them entering service.

 

[drum118]

Ok back to Toronto streetcars...

Does anyone know if reconstruction work will have to take place at Spadina station in order to accommodate the new vehicles? I'm assuming yes, however we are only a year away from them entering service.

There is no need for work at Spadina station for the new cars. The overhead has been raised and relocated for the new cars. You are only going to get 1-2 car in the station at a time. The loading area will shift to the west a little bit to get the 2nd car in.

 

[M II A II R II K]

With the new streetcars will some still short turn at King? Or go all the way to Union.

 

[DSC]

With the new streetcars will some still short turn at King? Or go all the way to Union.

As the new streetcars are much larger I am sure that all the schedules and routes will need to be looked at carefully (or, at least ought to be!) One problem that the TTC has is that new developments seldom fit with existing "loops" so adjusting service is complicated with planned turn-backs (or ad hoc short turns) - an example being the recent practice of turning 504 King cars back westbound at Church Street (to serve the growing King West district) results in worse service east of Church Street (which is also seeing a lot of development recently). Until they get a potential turn-back on Cherry Street (2016) there's not much that can be done,

 

[nfitz]

I think the question was about the scheduled short turn on Spadina at Charlotte, rather than the ad hoc ones that plague the rest of the system. And that answer to that is that there would be far too much capacity for all the Spadina service to go to Union - at best I'd expect it all to turn at Queens Quay if it doesn't turn at Charlotte.

 

[drum118]

I think the question was about the scheduled short turn on Spadina at Charlotte, rather than the ad hoc ones that plague the rest of the system. And that answer to that is that there would be far too much capacity for all the Spadina service to go to Union - at best I'd expect it all to turn at Queens Quay if it doesn't turn at Charlotte.

I agree with too many cars going to Union, but Lakeshore will be an issues taking all cars south of King. I expect to see some cars turn at King.

The current headway of 2+ minutes will increase to 3/4+ minutes with a lost of a few cars.

I was at Parliament a few weeks ago where I just saw 3 westbound passing the stop before I got to the stop. The display said the next cars were in 12 and 19 minutes. A few minutes later, that eastbound short turn show up at King on Parliament St to allow us to get on it.

TTC is going to have to look at this short turn before 2015/2016, but some of it maybe solve when the new cars hit the line before then. Even with short turning at Cherry St, you still got issue east of here to deal with before 2016.

Have to talk to the person in-charge the next time I see him about this considering the first phase of River City will be on line this year if riders want to use 504 in place of the 501.

To deal with the issue is to have that loop built on Boardview as plan.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Perhaps have half of them go to Union and the other half to Exhibition.

 

[DSC]

drum118 said "TTC is going to have to look at this short turn before 2015/2016, but some of it maybe solve when the new cars hit the line before then. Even with short turning at Cherry St, you still got issue east of here to deal with before 2016. " While I agree that a new short-turn destination of Broadview would be useful, when you get to Cherry/Sumach streets the distance between King and Queen streets is very short so having eastbound cars short-turning at Cherry is really not too bad.

 

[nfitz]

While I agree that a new short-turn destination of Broadview would be useful, when you get to Cherry/Sumach streets the distance between King and Queen streets is very short so having eastbound cars short-turning at Cherry is really not too bad.

If your heading east on Queen perhaps. If your heading north on Broadview then all the short-turns, that seem as if they'll grow worse, are annoying. At least with those currently short-turning at Dundas, it's a short walk for me now to walk to Gerrard to catch a 506. If the cars only get to the new loop at Broadview and Queen, then it's much more frustrating.