TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

[scarberiankhatru]

The 12,000 figure is mine, it was just misinterpreted along the way somewhere. Really, it's more like 13,XXX.

"I don't see your point, the Mississauga Transitway does not go to Kipling or the Airport either."

It goes right next to the airport, close enough to be linked to some sort of airport transit, and it can easily take the 427 to Kipling...you still haven't explained how it'll get to York.

Dundas may have 15,000 boardings, but in Toronto that wouldn't even get bus lanes. The figure usually bandied about is ~40,000 boardings per day as a higher order threshold, which works out to X thousand per hour in peak times.

 

[doady]

It goes right next to the airport, close enough to be linked to some sort of airport transit, and it can easily take the 427 to Kipling...you still haven't explained how it'll get to York.

To get to York, the buses would take 427 and 407. That is what GO is planning.

But that is not what I mean when I say the transitway should be extended. Obviously, bus routes that use the transitway can travel to destinations that are beyond the transitway itself, but it is better if the buses use their own grade-seperate road instead of the highways.

The transitway can be extended to Kipling and York University along the hydro corridors, and there plenty of room for a busway to the Airport from Renforth transitway station.

This would, for example, allow the TTC to operate the Airport Rocket bus more efficiently, entirely separate from other traffic with stops along the way.

Dundas may have 15,000 boardings, but in Toronto that wouldn't even get bus lanes. The figure usually bandied about is ~40,000 boardings per day as a higher order threshold, which works out to X thousand per hour in peak times.

The TTC did think 37,000 boardings was enough for subways along Eglinton and Sheppard so somehow I don't think a BRT or LRT along Dundas would be out of the question. Dundas already has HOV lanes anyways.

Actually, I don't think an East Mall station is good idea after all. It makes more sense to have the regional terminal at Kipling, since this is where the GO Station is and where the transitway would connect, if it is extended.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Screw some worthless west-of-Kipling streetcar, I've been saying for years that they should just extend the subway straight to Square One. Then buses all over Etobicoke and Mississauga can pour straight into the nearest station.

 

[dashingdan]

That would be the logical thing to do; thus it won't be done. But despite my bias for Mississauga, I still think a subway to Scarborough Town Centre should come before Mississauga City Centre. As for Vaughan Corporate Centre, I think everyone agrees that that's just a dumb idea. Imagine being able to get on the subway at MCC and traveling all the way to STC.
Some might say that would be more of a GO thing to do, but I don't agree. GO serves downtown Toronto and not much else. Getting GO to serve something like Bloor-Danforth, skipping Union, I just don't see happening, even though it should.

edit: if anyone has been to mcc recently and has seen all the construction there recently, you'd see that its really in need of a subway. if not for now, then for 10 years down the line when any such subway would be completed.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"Imagine being able to get on the subway at MCC and traveling all the way to STC."

Since those are the two most obvious and logical terminating points for the line, it clearly won't make it that far. There's no "density" out there, there's no money for subways, there's no riders, blah blah blah.

 

[markayca]

MCC to STC would still be a pretty long ride on the subway though... Obviously better than what we have now with all the bus transfers/SRT problems but it would still likely be around a 1.25-1.5 hr ride.

 

[dashingdan]

No density at STC or MCC yet the TTC may build a subway to VCC. The TTC is a joke. Yeah its political interference, but still.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

"MCC to STC would still be a pretty long ride on the subway though..."

It's raison d'etre isn't for people going from one mall to the other, that would just be a benefit. Even if it was 80 minutes door to door, that's not too bad considering you're travelling across the entire inner suburbs...it's not even horrifically slower than the car.

Tens of thousands of people currently travel out to subway terminuses and then get on buses that take them out as far or farther again, but it's not "too long" for them. Most of this city's growth is occurring out beyond where these people currently live, too. I don't support wild suburban subway expansion, but tossing aside valid projects and keeping only the friggin Sorbara sinkhole line makes as much sense as an Escher staircase.

 

[cdl42]

Lessee... if a passenger rode the subway to Kipling then hopped on a MT express bus straight across Mississauga to Winston Churchill Blvd, they would be travelling about 16km beyond the end of the subway line. It might not be a fun trip, but people certainly do it each and every day.

Now, if a passenger rode to the end of the Sobara line and caught a York bus for northward and rode for 16km, that would place them... north of King City.

I don't even want to think of a time when a Mississauga-level of development has stretched that far. That would mean a completely built-out Vaughan, and a half-developed King. Plain and simple, there simply isn't sufficient catchment for a Sobara line.

 

[ahrvojic]

Screw some worthless west-of-Kipling streetcar, I've been saying for years that they should just extend the subway straight to Square One. Then buses all over Etobicoke and Mississauga can pour straight into the nearest station.

Exactly! Subway is a dirty word these days it seems, but as I keep saying as well, an extension of the B-D to MCC is a legitimate project that would do wonders for the GTA's west end. It's about the only transit improvement that would make a real difference I think, given that the commuter rail options we've discussed here before depend on securing electrified rail corridors and the complete reorganization of GO (hah!).

It's raison d'etre isn't for people going from one mall to the other, that would just be a benefit. Even if it was 80 minutes door to door, that's not too bad considering you're travelling across the entire inner suburbs...it's not even horrifically slower than the car.

My daily commute from MCC to just Davisville is pretty close to 80 minutes as it is.

Tens of thousands of people currently travel out to subway terminuses and then get on buses that take them out as far or farther again, but it's not "too long" for them.

This is worth repeating. I ride to Islington for 30 minutes and then hop on MT and ride for another 30 minutes to Hurontario. Thousands of others travel even further west!

 

[roch5220]

Thousands of others travel even further west!

So, we should spend billions providing mass transit to 'thousands' who choose to commutte to work via this method vs. them moving closer to where they work?

 

[roch5220]

extension of the B-D to MCC is a legitimate project that would do wonders for the GTA's west end.

How is it a legit project and how would it do wonders for the west end? Outside of the Toronto's 416 CBD, the jobs are sparsely located. In fact, the CBD really hasn't lost any white collar jobs, but 416 in a whole has receded jobs. To connect Mississauga to the BD line, you think it would be cost effective to spend a billion or so for the 'thousands' of commutters who commute to jobs ending along the BD line, or north of northern Toronto?

And on the reverse side, MCC hasn't exactly been the poster child for 905 employment/node growth. In fact, its been quite hurting vs. other areas like in York region.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

^ Yeah, shame on them for not moving to Forest Hill or the Kingsway...

 

[spmarshall]

There's a part of me that completely agrees with the above, another part that is tired of this being dragged out all the time.

Places of work can change suddenly, especially given the decline of jobs for life in the corporate sector, and even the public sector. And that for a family, it is becoming prohibitively expensive to live in the inner 416 (and population is still rising anyway) that good intraregional transit is needed, and you can't just pick people up and move them closer to their jobs.

Then again, I think good regional rail and good local transit is better for Mississauga, Brampton, Markham, etc, than never-ending TTC subway extensions.

 

[roch5220]

Please, there is reasonable housing off of bloor within walking distance of the subway. Its well known, unless you Are Be, that 416 household incomes are considerably lower than all other 905 GTA regions. This 'rich'/ 'poor' argument is BS spewed by those who move to get more for their money, and then expect a subway to be built to their door steps. There always are going to be exceptions, but taking the Macro view, the argument is 'are be' like. Unless you think Toronto is still Hogtown and that everybody deserves there own suburban castle.