Transit Fantasy Maps

[innsertnamehere]

Something like this could always work with a moving sidewalk between the two stations like there used to be at spadina:

 

[Johnny Au]

Something like this could always work with a moving sidewalk between the two stations like there used to be at spadina:

The station box for Downsview is actually north of Sheppard.

 

[BurlOak]

The station box for Downsview is actually north of Sheppard.

I found this drawing in a document called "Change in Subway Tunnel Construction Method At Sheppard West Station Area, EA Addendum Report, Downsview Station to Steeles Avenue - Environmental Assessment"

Not sure if it is clear enough, but the station is about 100m south of Sheppard to 50m north of Sheppard. Another thing to note is that about 250m north of Sheppard (where the tail tracks end), the tracks curve west at a rather tight 310m radius. This means that by the time your curve from Sheppard meets the Dufferin, the Spadina line has already curved and is already under the buildings on the west side of Dufferin. And since that curve is so tight, your curve would never meet the Spadina line unless it is an even tighter curve or when the curve smooths out well west of Dufferin.

I thought it would be possible to go straight under Dufferin and then tie in to the Spadina line on the west side of Dufferin and south of Sheppard (which conveniently curves north) - there is a lot of open space here so easier construction and less disruption.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Connect it at Downsview Park station instead, where it can also connect with GO.

 

[Translude15]

So I took a page out of insertnamehere's post from a few pages ago and made a future TTC map. Here's a general view of the system. All comments, criticisms, and/or suggestions are welcome.

I like the idea of de-coupling the Yonge line. I de-coupled it from Lawrence and brought it down Bay St. It swings through Southcore and Cityplace, hitting the Exhibition before travelling north on Dufferin until Eglinton. I also included a Dundas line stretching from Victoria Park until Humber Bay in Etobicoke.

The DRL alignment follows the general King-Queen alignment through the core and peripheral areas.

The de-coupled Yonge line would include a new N-S station just east of the current Union subway station.

 

[gweed123]

So I decided to draw up an alternative GO REX implementation. The basis of this plan is that the DRL in essence becomes a GO REX tunnel instead of a TTC subway line. The 'full length' GO lines go through Union, while the 'inner ring hub' terminus lines use the tunnel under Queen.

Image link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43869799/GO REX v5.jpg

This creates an interesting effect, because for most of the stations along the main GO branches in Toronto (ex: Eglinton-Don Mills), a rider can go either to Union or to City Hall from the same platform. This would reduce transfers or walking distances within downtown, because riders could choose which train would be more convenient for them to take. It also reduces pressure on Union and the tracks leading into Union, as the number of trains coming in compared to previous versions of GO REX is roughly half.

This setup also doesn't preclude the possibility of a TTC DRL along King in the future.

 

[Dan416]

Interesting that you have a MCC line branching off the regular Milton line. I think it's cool that half the lines go through City Hall station.

 

[jamincan]

I'm not exactly sold on the idea. In particular, moving UPX out of Union Station is a major mistake since the entire point of the line is to connect Pearson with Union.

 

[diminutive]

I'm not exactly sold on the idea. In particular, moving UPX out of Union Station is a major mistake since the entire point of the line is to connect Pearson with Union.

The entire point of UPX is to connect the financial district with the airport. Since Union has the rail corridor, it just makes sense to have UPX run from there to YYZ. If there were a tunnel leading from anywhere else in the CBD to YYZ then UPX could run out of there.

I don't think the UPX business model is assuming large numbers of transfers from GO rail.

 

[ShonTron]

So I decided to draw up an alternative GO REX implementation. The basis of this plan is that the DRL in essence becomes a GO REX tunnel instead of a TTC subway line. The 'full length' GO lines go through Union, while the 'inner ring hub' terminus lines use the tunnel under Queen.


Image link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43869799/GO REX v5.jpg

This creates an interesting effect, because for most of the stations along the main GO branches in Toronto (ex: Eglinton-Don Mills), a rider can go either to Union or to City Hall from the same platform. This would reduce transfers or walking distances within downtown, because riders could choose which train would be more convenient for them to take. It also reduces pressure on Union and the tracks leading into Union, as the number of trains coming in compared to previous versions of GO REX is roughly half.

This setup also doesn't preclude the possibility of a TTC DRL along King in the future.

Really interesting and well-designed map!

Your service plan does short-change Brampton a bit, and arguably Markham, while overserving Richmond Hill with 4/8 minute service plus a subway. Richmond Hill currently has the lowest GO rail ridership, while Markham and Brampton are the hardest to serve via the subway. Mount Joy should be where at least half the trains turn back on the Markham/Stouffville Line.

You could probably run a Mount Pleasant-Mount Joy route via the Queen Tunnel, to compliment the Mount Pleasant-Union-Stouffville route. The Kitchener-Brampton-Union route should probably be run semi-express (stopping only at Brampton and/or Bramalea and Highway 27 for the Pearson connection) and separate from the local service from Mount Pleasant.

I'd also suggest extending the short-turn at Port Credit as far as Oakville (there's not much room at Port Credit, there's much more at Oakville) and adding a stop near Humber Bay.

I agree that UPX should go to Union, and could still have fewer stops, as long as the stops are maintained at Bloor and Highway 27 (and perhaps Mount Dennis and Parkdale), at least skipping Weston, Rexdale, St. Clair West, CityPlace. A premium fare could still be charged to and from Union, but a transit fare for trips only to/from Highway 27 for connections to local or Kitchener trains.

 

[nfitz]

Interesting that you have a MCC line branching off the regular Milton line.

That's how Metrolinx shows it, isn't it?

 

[gweed123]

Interesting that you have a MCC line branching off the regular Milton line. I think it's cool that half the lines go through City Hall station.

I think it's more effective than a diversion of the Milton line, because under that situation you lose Erindale station. I also think that this setup would do far more for Mississauga than a Bloor-Danforth extension would. Much faster, and one less transfer to get to the same location.

I'm not exactly sold on the idea. In particular, moving UPX out of Union Station is a major mistake since the entire point of the line is to connect Pearson with Union.

To be honest, I'm not really sold on the idea of UPX. It would be far more beneficial as a rapid transit route than as a premium traveller shuttle. Also, I believe the point of UPX is to connect downtown to Pearson. Union just happens to be the most convenient hub from which to do that.

Really interesting and well-designed map!

Thanks! It's been an evolution, haha.

Your service plan does short-change Brampton a bit, and arguably Markham, while overserving Richmond Hill with 4/8 minute service plus a subway. Richmond Hill currently has the lowest GO rail ridership, while Markham and Brampton are the hardest to serve via the subway. Mount Joy should be where at least half the trains turn back on the Markham/Stouffville Line.

Yeah I've been grappling with that. If the Richmond Hill line were to be built, I would think the North Yonge Subway could be shelved for a while, since GO REX would accomplish virtually all of the goals the subway would achieve.

You could probably run a Mount Pleasant-Mount Joy route via the Queen Tunnel, to compliment the Mount Pleasant-Union-Stouffville route. The Kitchener-Brampton-Union route should probably be run semi-express (stopping only at Brampton and/or Bramalea and Highway 27 for the Pearson connection) and separate from the local service from Mount Pleasant.

That could work. Run the Pearson-STC route through Union instead of City Hall, and put a new route from Mt Pleasant to Mt Joy via Queen, and run the full length route semi-express after Bramalea, with stops at Highway 27, Bloor-Dundas West, and Union. That would solve the UPX problems as well. That way the tunnel maintains the same frequencies as before, and Union is slightly bumped (which it can handle, I just don't think it can handle 2 versions of every GO line coming through it).

I'd also suggest extending the short-turn at Port Credit as far as Oakville (there's not much room at Port Credit, there's much more at Oakville) and adding a stop near Humber Bay.

The reason I chose Port Credit is because of the LRT connection there. I do suppose though that Clarkson would make more sense for turnaround purposes (much like Mt. Pleasant and Mt. Joy for Brampton and Markham respectively). I don't want to stretch it all the way to Oakville, because I feel that's too far out for an 'inner suburb' overlap service. Humber Bay also makes sense.

 

[doady]

Am I really the only one who thinks MCC GO REX service should be a "branch" of the Georgetown/Kitchener line? Not much space along Milton, and there's no sense in interfere with operation for Cooksvile and transfers to the Hurontario/Main LRT. Just convert the Mississauga Transitway to rail. Shouldn't there the crosstown REX line too? Mississauga Transitway (along with the 407 Transitway) would be converted to rail anyways...

Btw, I think it's funny how, no matter our opinion on which lines should go where, everyone agrees "Regional Express", or "REX", is cool name (from an early Metrolinx document/map if I remember correct). I was thinking about the branding of LRT in GTA also. The presence of streetcar really complicates things. I previous labeled tham "Tramway," to match with how heavy rail/metro is branded as "Subway", but problem there is already "Streetcar" in the GTA, not "Tram". So I just thought of something better: "Streetcar Express" or "SEX", to match with REX. I realize some might find it offensive but this isn't USA or Alberta. The GTA is not that puritannical so I think it would be fine.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Love it

Let's go on a Crosstown SEX ride.

 

[Translude15]

So I decided to draw up an alternative GO REX implementation. The basis of this plan is that the DRL in essence becomes a GO REX tunnel instead of a TTC subway line. The 'full length' GO lines go through Union, while the 'inner ring hub' terminus lines use the tunnel under Queen.

Image link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43869799/GO REX v5.jpg

This creates an interesting effect, because for most of the stations along the main GO branches in Toronto (ex: Eglinton-Don Mills), a rider can go either to Union or to City Hall from the same platform. This would reduce transfers or walking distances within downtown, because riders could choose which train would be more convenient for them to take. It also reduces pressure on Union and the tracks leading into Union, as the number of trains coming in compared to previous versions of GO REX is roughly half.

This setup also doesn't preclude the possibility of a TTC DRL along King in the future.

This is a fantastic map gweed. I'm not trying to butter you up or anything but I must say I'm always looking forward to new posts from you because your maps are always pragmatic and top-notch. Your efforts are much appreciated.

One note however: the Lakeshore REX should ideally be extended to Clarkson. Perhaps it could even be extended to Oakville as there are long-term plans to completely redevelop the area surrounding Oakville GO into an integral transportation hub. Oakville is also the busiest GO station by passenger volume.