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Transit Fantasy Maps

ehlow said:
I wonder if the fact that the local Sheppard bus has much more ridership than the express version makes the case that people prefer closer stop spacing at the expense of speed?
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Let's compare apples to apples. I regularly take bus 60 Steeles West, which has an express branch. When a local 60 arrives to a stop and an express 60E follows, a lot of people skip 60B and prefer to board 60E. Obviously, they like speed.

Routes 85 and 190E are not directly comparable, since they have different lengths and different service areas. Bus 85 goes to the eastern border of Toronto while 190 ends at STC. Riders from east of McCowan cannot choose between local and express; they have local 85 only.

Performance of both routes is actually similar. Bus 190 has 2.7 times fewer riders, but it also needs proportionally fewer vehicles (10 vs 29 in AM peak, and 12 vs 28 in PM peak). The same proportion holds for operating costs: $ 21,000 per day for 190, $ 63,500 per day for 85. Those numbers are from "Ridership and cost statistics for bus and streetcar routes, 2012".

Most interestingly, Sheppard LRT will have stop spacing more like #190 than like #85. Bus 190 has 6 stops on Sheppard, starting from Kennedy and excluding Don Mills subway. Sheppard LRT will have 9 stops along the same stretch. But the existing bus 85 has 15 stops along that stretch.
 
We are spending about $3.5B to $4.0B on the B-D Subway Extension to Scarborough. I was wondering how that money could better be spent in Scarborough. Here are the options.

4B Scarborough.jpg
 

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Let me ask you guys about the technology behind Scarborough RT. From what I understand, it's the same technology behind Vancouver's whole elevated & automated system, a proprietary technology that is only used in a few places, with a special motor.

Does Vancouver have the same problems as we did for the SRT? If not, why not?

Was it a bad idea for Vancouver to rely on this technology? From what I understand, there are only a few cities who use it compared to standard LRT tech which is used everywhere. You can have LRTs run automated & elevated like the skytrain does.
 
BurlOak said:
We are spending about $3.5B to $4.0B on the B-D Subway Extension to Scarborough. I was wondering how that money could better be spent in Scarborough. Here are the options.

View attachment 21326
Click to expand...

Subway to Kingston is an overkill IMO; the area will have two heavy rail lines (BD and Lakeshore East GO) going almost in the same direction.

The third map: SRT to Malvern / Finch and a branch to UTSC, looks good. But a) You also need to include DRL to Eglinton in order to distribute the Eglinton load properly; b) It may not be possible to elevate 100% of Eglinton East; sections around Vic Park, and from Warden to Kennedy may have to go underground, driving the cost of Eglinton upgrade somewhere in the $700 million to $ 1 billion range; c) It will be difficult to renegotiate with all parties to re-purpose the Scarborough Subway funding.
 
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ehlow said:
Let me ask you guys about the technology behind Scarborough RT. From what I understand, it's the same technology behind Vancouver's whole elevated & automated system, a proprietary technology that is only used in a few places, with a special motor.

Does Vancouver have the same problems as we did for the SRT? If not, why not?

Was it a bad idea for Vancouver to rely on this technology? From what I understand, there are only a few cities who use it compared to standard LRT tech which is used everywhere. You can have LRTs run automated & elevated like the skytrain does.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, since Vancouver's installation was made after SRT, some of the teething problems got fixed and that made Vancouver's Skytrain more reliable.

It was not necessarily a bad idea for Vancouver to install ICTS / ALRT. However, since SRT needs to be rebuild anyway, it would be a bad idea for the TTC to rely on a proprietary technology and bind itself to a single supplier in future.

Notably, these days Bombardier offers ALRT systems with a choice of propulsion methods: either their special linear induction motors, or standard rotary motors. So, even if TTC went with Bombardier at this time, it would make sense to select a technology that allows multiple bets in future.
 
Rainforest said:
To my knowledge, since Vancouver's installation was made after SRT, some of the teething problems got fixed and that made Vancouver's Skytrain more reliable.

It was not necessarily a bad idea for Vancouver to install ICTS / ALRT. However, since SRT needs to be rebuild anyway, it would be a bad idea for the TTC to rely on a proprietary technology and bind itself to a single supplier in future.

Notably, these days Bombardier offers ALRT systems with a choice of propulsion methods: either their special linear induction motors, or standard rotary motors. So, even if TTC went with Bombardier at this time, it would make sense to select a technology that allows multiple bets in future.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It seems both the Expo line in Van and the SRT were built in 1985. How come ours needs to be rebuilt, but theirs does not? Is it just that we made a different choice?
 
WislaHD said:
If the Sheppard line was converted to LRT do you guys think there should be a station at Willowdale?
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I think a strong case could be made for a Willowdale Station. I've highlighted all the surrounding areas where transit oriented development could occur:



Why this wasn't included in the initial subway construction baffles the mind. I think there should also be stations at Senlac and Faywood if ever extended west.
 
Rainforest said:
Subway to Kingston is an overkill IMO; the area will have two heavy rail lines (BD and Lakeshore East GO) going almost in the same direction.

The third map: SRT to Malvern / Finch and a branch to UTSC, looks good. But a) You also need to include DRL to Eglinton in order to distribute the Eglinton load properly; b) It may not be possible to elevate 100% of Eglinton East; sections around Vic Park, and from Warden to Kennedy may have to go underground, driving the cost of Eglinton upgrade somewhere in the $700 million to $ 1 billion range; c) It will be difficult to renegotiate with all parties to re-purpose the Scarborough Subway funding.
Click to expand...

A subway to UTSC up Kingston has more ridership then the McCowan route.
 
I think a strong case could be made for a Willowdale Station. I've highlighted all the surrounding areas where transit oriented development could occur:
Click to expand...

That whole area south of Sheppard to the 401 should be high density.
 
Edward Skira said:
That whole area south of Sheppard to the 401 should be high density.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It's the perfect "wedge" corridor. It has a very defined southern edge, and an RT line that's within walking distance at the northern edge. North of Sheppard, it should gradually decrease in height to single family a few blocks north of Sheppard.

Unfortunately though, until Willdowdale is built, the densification along Sheppard will be more node-based than corridor-based. As soon as you start to get gaps in the 'walking radii' circles around stations, the corridor effect starts to weaken.
 
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