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Transit Fantasy Maps

innsertnamehere said:
Eglinton will run 90 second trains on the underground portion.. the surface portion will run every 3 minutes, but that is way more than enough for the demand. 3 minute frequency with 90 meter trains results in a capacity of 10,000 PPHD, while demand is supposed to be around 3,000. The underground portion is supposed to be around 20,000 PPHD max, with demand around 6,000. The subway running T1 trains at 2 minute 21 second intervals provides for 26,000 PPHD. unless you forsee Eglinton breaching that 20,000 mark, it won't be over capacity, and trust me, it won't hit that. Bloor today only hits around 23-24,000 PPHD, and I simply cannot see Eglinton getting anywhere near the bloor level of usage.
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Thanks for the info, I can't believe how frequent the underground part will be. I wonder if they will start with 2-car trains (60m) or 3-car (90m). I think I read that the original plan was to start with 2, but since metrolinx took over it could probably change. Does anybody know what the projected daily ridership will be? I wish this line was closer to opening than in 6 years. Oh well at least we get to see the Spadina extension, new streetcars, Union station, and theoretically presto roll out before that.

denfromoakvillemilton said:
Definitely. Jane has 40,000 riders I believe, that's the high end for LRT. Victoria Park much less, around 25,000, but still the buses are busy. I think a Jane subway way more busier then Sheppard. Problem is now that Finch West is locate at Keele Finch, people will argue a Jane subway is not needed. I disagree, I would personally like the DRL to go up Jane or Kipling Ave (much less bus ridership, but serves Rexdale) to give RT access to lower middle class/poorer neighborhoods. As well, I think the DRL east should end at Seneca College (Don Mills-Finch). Finch East has 27,000 riders which would be enough to sustain a stop with the college.
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Thanks for the info. I fully support the DRL, and hope it goes as far west as Liberty Village, but part of me wants a Queen St subway line from High Park to the beaches as well :).
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
How? I don't understand honestly?
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Hmm.. 20k pphpd (90 second frequencies, 300 foot long trains similar to Eglinton, near crush loads).

Now, that gives you 40k people per hour in the peak point. If there was a full on rush for 12 hours, you can hit a half million though a single point in the network.

If you spread it out between 3 transfer stations (Eglinton West, Eglinton, Eglinton East to DRL), and each achieves 12k pphpd, that's well under crush for Eglinton at any given point, to each of those transfer stations (24k pph per station or 72k pph on the line at any time; all transferring to the nearest north/south lines); then it's conceivable to hit 500k on Eglinton LRT in a standard 2.5 hour morning (180k: 60k to Spadina, 60k to Yonge, 60k to DRL) and evening rush hour (180k) plus moderate off-peak service (140k).

The secret to high numbers is very high churn of the customer. If you convinced 2000 people at each station to ride Yonge subway for a single station only then the line as a whole might hit 140k passengers per hour and be in the low millions of riders per day.

Eglinton, unlike Yonge, doesn't actually go anywhere. The only purpose it serves is to bring someone to the nearest subway transfer point which should give the line unusually high churn.
 
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10,000 PPHD x 24 x 2(for each direction)

thats just for surface LRT. now obviously due to fluctuating usage patterns that number isn't achievable, but Jane would regardless be very, very far from capacity.
 
innsertnamehere said:
10,000 PPHD x 24 x 2(for each direction)

thats just for surface LRT. now obviously due to fluctuating usage patterns that number isn't achievable, but Jane would regardless be very, very far from capacity.
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What matters is how crowded it is from 8-9am on weekdays. Obviously during off peak it will be below capacity but that is irrelevant. If the Eglinton LRT is actually carrying 10000/hour, it will be like the Yonge line south of Bloor which is unacceptable.

Yes Eglinton does go somewhere. There is a major employment node south of the airport as you may have noticed. Plus there is bound to be more growth at Yonge/Eglinton and Don Mills/Eglinton, and there are various smaller employers scattered all over the place and traffic going to/from various bus routes, etc.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
I will bet you if the DRL west only does up to bloor people will want it to go Mount Dennis. Then Metrolinx will announce the DRL goes to Mt Dennis. And let's assume Eglinton West, The Malvern LRT, get built as well, I think it will come very close to capacity faster then we would want to believe.
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There's only 7.4 Billion available for the construction of 8 Relief Line. That can bring it to either Don Mills or Bloor. If we want to extend 8 Relief Line to Mt. Dennis, the City will have to chip in extra.
 
Hi,

Just to confirm, there are going to be two frequencies of LRTs on Eglinton, with one being every 90 seconds and the other being every 180 seconds (during rush hour)?

Which stations would be covered with the 90 seconds frequency?

Are there going to be extra platforms at each terminus of the 90 second frequency run?

What is the frequency expected to be during non-rush-hours for the Eglinton LRT?

Thanks in advance.
 
Our Eglinton line will have 90 second frequencies from Mt. Dennis to Don Mills, which is all of the underground portion. From Don Mills to Kennedy terminus will be 180 second frequencies. Half of the trains will turn back at Don Mills and the other half will continue to the Kennedy terminal.

I'm not sure what the off peak frequencies will be.
 
Given that Don Mills to Laird will not be grade separated for some strange reason, there definitely will not be frequencies below 3 minutes on that section. My impression was that the frequency would be 3 minutes throughout, even if theoretically it is possible to run 1.5 minutes west of Laird.
 
andrewpmk said:
What matters is how crowded it is from 8-9am on weekdays. Obviously during off peak it will be below capacity but that is irrelevant. If the Eglinton LRT is actually carrying 10000/hour, it will be like the Yonge line south of Bloor which is unacceptable.

Yes Eglinton does go somewhere. There is a major employment node south of the airport as you may have noticed. Plus there is bound to be more growth at Yonge/Eglinton and Don Mills/Eglinton, and there are various smaller employers scattered all over the place and traffic going to/from various bus routes, etc.
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Yup, many people work & live near Eglinton :). Yonge & Eglinton has many offices. It can also be used as part of another trip, for example, maybe you live in Leaside and want to go to York U, you could take Eglinton across, then the Spadina subway up. Or you live in Liberty Village and work at Yonge & Eglinton, you could take the Dufferin bus north to Eglinton, then Eglinton across. Imagine the possibilities!

The current buses, as slow as they are, already carry 48,000 per day on the West, 29,000 East of Yonge. So the West part alone carries more than the Scarborough RT and as much as the Sheppard subway on buses.

http://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Transit_Planning/Surface_Ridership_2012.jsp
 
andrewpmk said:
Given that Don Mills to Laird will not be grade separated for some strange reason, there definitely will not be frequencies below 3 minutes on that section. My impression was that the frequency would be 3 minutes throughout, even if theoretically it is possible to run 1.5 minutes west of Laird.
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TheTigerMaster, thanks!

And exactly andrewpmk, how is the Laird to Don Mills portion going to work out if the frequencies are so high (90 seconds) during rush hours. There will definitely be a bottleneck for all modes of transport at Leslie. Yet another solid reason for having a grade separated line all the way to Don Mills (at least) instead of just at Laird....oh Toronto....
 
That's what I'd love to know as well. From discussions I've been given the impression that crossing Laird will be a pain in a** due to the complicated light cycles there. This may be a good question to forward to Metrolinx.
 
TGM has it wrong, 1/2 the trains will turn back at Laird, not Don Mills.

frequencies will likely not be 90 seconds on opening day, as that is way more than needed. We will either see 2 car trains running every 2 minutes in the tunnel and every 4 minutes outside of it, or 3 car trains running every 3 minutes in the tunnel and every 6 minutes on the surface. Judging by renderings released by Metrolinx, they are thinking of option 1 currently, but nobody really knows. People keep mentioning 90 seconds in the tunnel and 3 minutes on the surface as that is what the line will be capable of should demand require it, though initial demand likely won't.
 
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90 seconds will be overkill. As you mentioned earlier, Eglinton won't have half the ridership that Bloor-Danforth has and that line has frequencies greater than two minutes.

I'm guessing that we'll see something in the 2 to 3 minute range underground and 2 to 5 minutes in the ROW.
 
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