Dan416
Senior Member
Is it allowed to get petitions signed on TTC property? I'd think Don Mills would be the most natural place do so, since Don Mills will be the new Kennedy.
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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate
- Thread starter unimaginative2
- Start date
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
I'd think the logical places would be Don Mills, STC (probably the mall around the RT station,) and in NYCC, probably around Sheppard-Yonge. Agincourt Go station could make sense as well.
You could also do Union Station or Bloor-Yonge. Those two locations would get a bunch of people who just care about good transit. But going to people along Sheppard would encourage them to do more themselves, like pressuring their councillors to support the subway as well.
You could also do Union Station or Bloor-Yonge. Those two locations would get a bunch of people who just care about good transit. But going to people along Sheppard would encourage them to do more themselves, like pressuring their councillors to support the subway as well.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
I'm not arguing that your opinion isn't well-founded because, seriously, in an ideal world with unlimited funds, Sheppard would and should be a subway to STC.
I'm just saying, as someone who is attempting to start an anti-Sheppard LRT movement, your Mississauga address hurts you. Campaigns like SOS and the anti-Blue22 folks in Weston got some traction with the media because they were founded by local people who could present relatable stories about how the transit plans would hurt their day-to-day lives. (Even if they were both kind of dumb.) You, as a transit fan from Mississauga who is unlikely to use any transit on the Sheppard corridor on a day-to-day basis, are not a good face for this movement.
You want this to work? Find some people who actually live and work on Sheppard who are concerned about the current plan. Then try to get local Councillor support. Continually profess your support for the TTC and the expansion of rapid transit. Avoid allying yourself with those who talk about the war-on-cars at all costs. Wear sunscreen.
Ansem
Banned
If every politicians had an attitude like that, politicians would be in heaven and waste your taxes on projects that brings no benefits.
I guess you get the city you deserve...
Maybe its because I'm not from Toronto. I came from Montreal and I realise more and more that most Torontonians are not aware of how much their city is important. Forbes Magazine said Toronto was in the top 10 most powerful (economic) city in the world.
The only thing Sheppard east bring is making Sheppard avenue more pretty. I even wonder if you pay property taxes. Having a 4% increase because Miller is a poor economic and drain 1 billion dollar on a project that is PROMOTE as RAPID TRANSIT but is clearly not is a slap to the face to every taxpayer.
As for the petition goes, most of you really have NO CLUE how powerful it can be. If the petition gets enough support and visibility, the TTC might still refuse to cancel the line but that will put pressure on them to review the line. 23km/h is a real joke and if the petition and the arguments we put forward make them understand that we get that this line is NOT rapid transit, its a good compromise if they were to change it.
At least on Eglinton they forbid left turns at many intersections but that is not the case here. This line is an overprice bus service and as a taxpayer I would have prefer a better bus service with reserved lanes instead.
I want the subway but bashing the petition and not seeing that if it were fully supported, the TTC would be open to WORK HARDER at making it faster. This line is an insult to the intelligence of Torontonians, a WASTE of money and it shows how improvised and politically motivated it really is.
Whoaccio
Senior Member
The "war on car" thing isn't as ridiculous as many downtowner's think it. At least for something like Sheppard, the nearest alternative (Finch) is more than 2 km north. Yea, there is the argument that people will just switch to public transit, but by the TTC's own numbers the SE LRT won't induce anyone to switch. Almost all of their ridership growth is due to expected population growth, not modal shifts. If you just take away capacity without adding a viable alternative (as in, something that travels faster than a bicycle), drivers do have a bit of a fair concern.
Whoaccio
Senior Member
Uhh... most of Transit City's biggest boosters come from south of Bloor and chances are will never ride the SE LRT either. I don't think that really counts against them, except for when their plan for transit improvement on Sheppard centers around dreams of turning big box stores in the middle of nowhere into quaint little European villages. Someone from Mississauga or York Region would probably have a better understanding of suburban transit usage then your average TC booster, who then spends the rest of the day throwing out Kunstlerian denunciations of anything that isn't the Annex and about how Peak Oil will totally screw up everything.
I dunno, tactically speaking, very few people understand what the hell Transit City is. Yes, there is us, but the other 99% of the City really have no idea of what TC is and what it implies. That is probably the best place to start. Most people don't really like Miller either, so I have a tough time seeing why the "opposition" in Toronto can do nothing. You just draw lines between the abject boondoggle on St. Clair (tangentially, it would be good for TTC boosters to just acknowledge this was a huge screwup and learn from it) to higher taxes under Miller and to idiotic projects like the SE LRT. Throw in how it is all kickbacks to his union buddies and whatnot. If you can graft the publicity of the recent strike onto the SE LRT, that would probably be the best way to sap support from it.
BMO
Senior Member
can anyone answer me why miller and the rest of the ppl behind transit city were so eager to get the sheppard east line started first? If anything i'd imagine the finch west would be more logical seeing as how it will connect to the future spadina subway extension (a line that will start tunnel boring soon) and accommodations must be met for it at the future keele station. Its almost as if they want to start building the shepaprd east line jsut to put the nail in the coffin for the possibility of a sheppard subway extension.
Panzerfaust
Active Member
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Regardless of the merits of the "war on car" arguments, it's not a wagon to hitch this petition to.
Petitions can be powerful, if they're backed by a good PR campaign that gives people an issue they can take on as their own. This petition is not likely to be successful because it's most transit nerd rage that is unlikely to resonate with the general public. It could seriously have been phrased as "We the undersigned really enjoy it when colourful lines connect with other colourful lines of the same width."
People from all over the 416 and 905 can have lots of totally valid opinions about Transit City and the various LRT proposals - personal geography is irrelevant on that level. But when it comes to a petition that aims to win public support? It sure would be better if your public face was someone who actually lived within the vicinity of the corridor.
nfitz
Superstar
It's simply addressed "To: City of Toronto ". It does later on mention "the Toronto Transit Commission, the Province of Ontario and the Government of Canada" but it's addressed only to the City. An your making fun of my reading comprehension??? ROTFLMAO
And it doesn't even mention the responsible agency - Metrolinx
Ansem
Banned
Politically motivated...PERIOD
Election next year
+
Not much love from the surburbs
=
Damn I need to built something to show them I did something for them or I'm toast at the election. Subways takes way too much time and I would have nothing to show them so they will keep (North York and Scarborough) hating me and might cause me to lose. And besides, they'll always remember me as the mayor who made Sheppard Avenue East pretty.
*
How do I make it happen??? I disregard previous reports saying the subways from Downsview to STC are necessary and come up with numbers (According to MY STANDARDS) that says subway isn't needed. Its a good thing that the people doesn't know that if Sheppard was compared to many lines around the world It would be a success.
+
Why not use the same scheme on Eglinton?
Lets make sure the people never know that:
-when the Canada line has a ridership similar to Eglinton
-It cost less by the Km to build the Canada ROW than Eglinton that will stop at red lights.
I Mayor Miller am a Genuis!!!!
***People want Toronto to be a first class international city but are not willing to make sure their politicians behave like it is. When citizens don't, that leave politicians making decisions for their own interest rather than what the people need.***
Dan416
Senior Member
The petition site asks you to address an organization. I chose the organization responsible for this mess.
Metrolinx? Don't make me laugh.
Ansem
Banned
I say the future of this project will be decided at the next election.
If Miller wins, its over
If his opponent wins, there's hope. Since they start at morningside, a year later I would be extremely surprise if they reach MCcowan and I'm being generous... Let's hope that Sheppard East will be an election factor.
Those who believe that opposing this is a waste of time, think again. You can't be mayor If Scarborough and North York don't vote for you, unless the vote % is very low. Miller BARELY won last time.
Maybe having a facebook page like the DRL movement and inviting them to join the ''SHEPPARD SUBWAY FROM DOWNVIEW TO SCARBOROUGH CENTER NOW'' would be more effective. Than we make sure it gets media attention.
When Miller's opponents are know, we present them our arguments to why it should be a subway instead of an LRT and all the members that support this initiative.
Of course, it is critical to remind them that a subway project would practically give them North York and Scarborough on a silver plater and unconditionnal support from the business community.
In politics, we learn the ABSOLUTE #1 GOAL of a politician is to be ELECTED.
They will do EVERYTHING NECESARRY to be elected. A very close campaign could be what the Sheppard subway need to be alive.
If Miller wins, its over
If his opponent wins, there's hope. Since they start at morningside, a year later I would be extremely surprise if they reach MCcowan and I'm being generous... Let's hope that Sheppard East will be an election factor.
Those who believe that opposing this is a waste of time, think again. You can't be mayor If Scarborough and North York don't vote for you, unless the vote % is very low. Miller BARELY won last time.
Maybe having a facebook page like the DRL movement and inviting them to join the ''SHEPPARD SUBWAY FROM DOWNVIEW TO SCARBOROUGH CENTER NOW'' would be more effective. Than we make sure it gets media attention.
When Miller's opponents are know, we present them our arguments to why it should be a subway instead of an LRT and all the members that support this initiative.
Of course, it is critical to remind them that a subway project would practically give them North York and Scarborough on a silver plater and unconditionnal support from the business community.
In politics, we learn the ABSOLUTE #1 GOAL of a politician is to be ELECTED.
They will do EVERYTHING NECESARRY to be elected. A very close campaign could be what the Sheppard subway need to be alive.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
I don't know... I just think that if one is going to lobby for change then one should lobby the one who has the power to make the change. If I wanted lower taxes in Caledon I wouldn't track down the former mayor (the one responsible for the perceived mess). Even if I didn't like mayor Morrison, I would realize that she's now in control. Of course I'm probably just too naïve on this subject...
DavidH
Senior Member
My understanding of English grammar says that "We the undersigned petition the City of Toronto, the Toronto Transit Commission, the Province of Ontario and the Government of Canada" is addressed to all four entities mentioned.
And yes, Metrolinx is not mentioned, which is simply wrong. As has been said above, whether one likes Metrolinx or not, they are the agency in charge, and ignoring them in the petition simply makes it easier to ignore the petition.
I had signed earlier to demonstrate my general displeasure with the street level LRT designs - assuming Metrolinx has no changes of plans we haven't heard about - but I've reconsidered based on the general silliness of the above discussion and retracted my signature at the petition site. As much as I would prefer a single contiguous grade-separated northern higher-speed route across the top of the city, the idea that getting rid of Miller would suddenly result in an extension of the Sheppard subway is ridiculous, and much of the above discussion just leaves a bad taste.
The ease of forgery of this petition (witness the Adam Giambrone signature) will make this easily ignored regardless of how many signatures are on it.
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