Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

[nfitz]

I think you need to re-look up the definition of NIMBY.

From a Canadian dictionary: "a person who objects to unwanted groups or developments appearing in his or her neighbourhood".

Perhaps the only way that definition doesn't fit is that some of the people fighting this aren't even living in Toronto ... but other than that; if the shoe fits, wear it.

This thread is for the Sheppard East LRT. Keep your LRT-bashing in the LRT hate thread.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I have a meeting at City Hall this coming week. Without going into details, am I allowed to mention who you guys are to Councillor Giambrone (if I see him)?

 

[Dan416]

From a Canadian dictionary: "a person who objects to unwanted groups or developments appearing in his or her neighbourhood".

Perhaps the only way that definition doesn't fit is that some of the people fighting this aren't even living in Toronto ... but other than that; if the shoe fits, wear it.

This thread is for the Sheppard East LRT. Keep your LRT-bashing in the LRT hate thread.

Except they're not objecting to development. They're objecting to being treated as the second-class citizens of Toronto when they were promised a subway that was always planned.

And as far as I can tell, the local councillor lives there and is objecting, and the local businesses have concerns, so no, it's not just people living "outside" of Toronto. Nice try, but try again.

Furthermore, one moment Mississauga is part of the GTA, and the next people in Mississauga don't live in Toronto. Make up your mind.

 

[nfitz]

Except they're not objecting to development.

NIMBYs are never completely opposed to development (well not those in cities at least); just against the development they don't like.

And as far as I can tell, the local councillor lives there and is objecting, and the local businesses have concerns, so no, it's not just people living "outside" of Toronto.

Which

Furthermore, one moment Mississauga is part of the GTA, and the next people in Mississauga don't live in Toronto. Make up your mind.

Although I have no recollection saying that ... which one of those is false? Fact: Mississauga is part of the GTA. Fact: People who live in Mississauga don't live in Toronto.

Here's an interesting question; what percentage of people who use the Sheppard East bus live in Mississauga?

 

[Dan416]

NIMBYs are never completely opposed to development (well not those in cities at least); just against the development they don't like.

So wanting higher order transit is being a NIMBY? So say someone wanted a LRT over a BRT...is that a NIMBY too? Are all Mississaugans who want LRT over BRT for Hurontario NIMBYs? I think your judgment of NIMBY is completely off.

Which

Um did you read the article at all?

Although I have no recollection saying that ... which one of those is false? Fact: Mississauga is part of the GTA. Fact: People who live in Mississauga don't live in Toronto.

Here's an interesting question; what percentage of people who use the Sheppard East bus live in Mississauga?

That's like asking what percentage of Torontonians use the 19 Hurontario or the 3 Bloor or 20 Rathburn or 26 Burnhamthorpe or 1 Dundas and then deciding for them that they don't deserve a subway.

 

[nfitz]

Um did you read the article at all?

I saw nothing in it of him wanting to cancel the LRT.

 

[kEiThZ]

I saw nothing in it of him wanting to cancel the LRT.

You're right. He's not advocating cancelling the LRT. He just wants the subway that was promised. He wants a portion 'upgraded'. Same thing we're campaigning for. And this is just the start. The more people in Scarborough find out above the LRT, the more anxious they get. Wait till we tell them what that money could've bought.

 

[GTS]

I had the day off yesterday and I took a ride on the 85 bus, my wife and I used to live up there but now we live off of St. Clair near Warden Station. Anyways what this post is about is that I saw a lot of construction on Sheppard just east of Markham Rd. It looked like they were the large concrete storm sewer drains. Is this being done in preparation for the Transit Project for this area? I know that two routes are going to be in this very area very soon, the extended SRT (hopefully LRT) and the SELRT of course. Does any one have any info. on what is happening.

I am glad that the GO line at Agincourt is being planned to be grade seperated as well, this will help all traffic and transit.

 

[Tdot_one]

Are these part of Sheppard going to see large scale, local, intensification? I am talking about the development that Bloor, Queen St, or Yonge saw. The current development around the existing Sheppard line, on the other hand, resemble Asian bedroom suburbs.

Subways on undeveloped land (outside of Agincourt) tends to that. Office centers tend to develop in such corridors, that is, if generous subsidies are provided. I could see that occuring as well, but the more local, "cultured", development be better.

Personlly, I think Toronto needs to see the Sheppard line finished and LRT lines built in those parts of the city as well. Humber, STC, York University, and other corridors in those parts could benefit greatly by having a local tram service.

 

[Rainforest]

Trying to sabatoge transit projects in this city, to trade them for a pipe dream is being 100% unconstructive.

No, this is a potentially productive initiative. They (S.O.S.) won't be able to stop front-runner projects (such as the eastern portion of SELRT), but they will trigger meaningful discussion on projects that are further in the pipeline, where alternatives are still possible.

I read that Scarborough newspaper article that was posted here. In the same article that talked about a group trying to get a subway, it also discussed the lost of lanes for cars. It's NIMBYism pure and simple.

Those who complain about loss of car lanes, probably do not know what they are talking about. Today, almost all of Sheppard East is two lanes per direction plus central lane for left turns, not three lanes per direction. For LRT, the street will be widened and two lanes per direction will be retained. At most, the central left-turn lane might be lost, but it is not used by through traffic anyway.

 

[nfitz]

You're right. He's not advocating cancelling the LRT. He just wants the subway that was promised. He wants a portion 'upgraded'.

Sure, everyone wants a subway. Clearly however given how advanced the LRT plans are, pushing for it at this stage makes no sense whatsover ... which is quite clear to sitting politicians. At this point energy would be much better sense pushing for things that are possible.

Same thing we're campaigning for.

It's not the same thing at all. Pushing that a single stretch be upgraded is one thing. Pushing the delay and cancellation of virtually every LRT line in the city, and instead building 2 subway lines in Scarborough is a completely different kettle of fish. One looks sensible, the other looks more like that pathetic SOS group that tried to cancel the St. Clair LRT.

 

[kettal]

Those who complain about loss of car lanes, probably do not know what they are talking about. Today, almost all of Sheppard East is two lanes per direction plus central lane for left turns, not three lanes per direction. For LRT, the street will be widened and two lanes per direction will be retained. At most, the central left-turn lane might be lost, but it is not used by through traffic anyway.

Cars will benefit from the LRT too. No longer have to mix with stop & go buses.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Cars won't have to deal with buses except where perhaps *5* bus routes will continue running along Sheppard (unless they're cancelling/rerouting the 24A, the 224, the 169, the 167, and the 190). Last time I asked the city what will happen to these 5 routes, I got an answer of "TBD," but maybe someone else has heard differently. Cars may also have to deal with complex light cycles. Operational promises made now may not materialize.

Someone desiring a subway extension instead of a different transit project is by definition not a NIMBY, though people are free to misuse the term.

Niftz, you know that's a total lie. Either start being at least partially constructive or stop trolling.

That's like asking a mosquito to go vegan.

 

[Rainforest]

Cars won't have to deal with buses except where perhaps *5* bus routes will continue running along Sheppard (unless they're cancelling/rerouting the 24A, the 224, the 169, the 167, and the 190). Last time I asked the city what will happen to these 5 routes, I got an answer of "TBD," but maybe someone else has heard differently. Cars may also have to deal with complex light cycles. Operational promises made now may not materialize.

However, if they build subway to Agincourt and LRT east of Agincourt, then all those bus routes will approach the closest subway station from north or south, and won't run on Sheppard. LRT east of Agincourt won't need to coexist with buses, except 190 for a short stretch; and even 190 may be re-routed via Ellesmere or via 401.

Plus, the shorter LRT line won't need complex light cycles.

 

[kettal]

Cars won't have to deal with buses except where perhaps *5* bus routes will continue running along Sheppard (unless they're cancelling/rerouting the 24A, the 224, the 169, the 167, and the 190). Last time I asked the city what will happen to these 5 routes, I got an answer of "TBD," but maybe someone else has heard differently. Cars may also have to deal with complex light cycles. Operational promises made now may not materialize.

I predict these buses will use the transit ROW where possible, but who knows?