Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

[SunriseChampion]

And in your opinion what makes Scarborough less deserving of subway than Vaughan or Richmond Hill, exactly?

I'm not sure if you were asking me specifically, but it's not. It's more deserving, if anything. The Sheppard corridor to McCowan is already more dense than VCC will ever be (at least for the next 25 years)...and larger by far.

I'm from Scarborough (I grew up there). I've always thought the SRT was rip-off for my homeland (yes, I call it that) not to mention deserving of a subway.

The Sheppard LRT fiasco is well...a fiasco.
Any other city of our stature would have already connected a NYCC with a SCC. But more importantly, would not be throwing resources at this LRT line when there already exists an incomplete subway line coupled with buses that are doing as well, presumably, as the LRT will.

The boondoggle won't be seen as having started the Sheppard Line, but as having not finished it and cutting it up.

I said it in an earlier post and I'll say it again: there is no substitute for doing things efficiently and properly.

Plopping down a half-useless LRT line on a corridor where there is a subway line started and ample bussing is NOT efficient and proper.

If they want to put in subway at retardedly incremental baby steps and run buses out in the meantime, by all means, but to thrown down a LRT line in the stead of said buses and call it a day.......what planet am I on?

 

[Dan416]

I'm not sure if you were asking me specifically, but it's not. It's more deserving, if anything. The Sheppard corridor to McCowan is already more dense than VCC will ever be (at least for the next 25 years)...and larger by far.

I was asking the person who said STC didn't deserve subway.

I love it when people say ridership isn't there for subway to STC. Yet we're getting subway to VCC and RHC. Makes zero sense. Nothing, and I mean nothing, grates on me like the Sheppard East LRT. It's just so blatantly stupid, nonsensical, shortsighted, and irrational it just boggles the mind.

Some people might say two subway lines to STC (Sheppard and Danforth) is too much. The flip side of that coin is, can you imagine the development that two subways to STC would bring?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The Sheppard LRT will have signal priority no doubt, so change that 2 km/h more to around 10, and I think the idea that the line will be over capacity is absurd.
I think everyone's underplaying LRT technology. If it is implemented properly, which after the St. Clair disaster it undoubtedly will be, I simply believe that it will provide sufficient transportation along the Sheppard corridor and that our resources are better spent in areas that require help more.
By the way, I don't quite understand what you mean by "The subway already exists..." Could you explain?

It won't be 10km/hr faster, certainly not according to the EA (which is probably optismistic already). Can buses not use signal priority?

I didn't say it'd be over-capacity...come now, there's no need to pick further fights.

Sufficient to do what? What is the purpose of the line?

You don't understand that the subway already exists? That maybe additional transit infrastructure along the corridor should possibly (get ready, crazy thought coming up!) be an extension of the existing subway line, and not an 'extension' using a second line?

There's lots of places where light rail is warranted and needed...maybe a corridor with an unfinished subway line (the paint is practically still wet) isn't the best and highest priority place for it.

*cue "subways can't go on forever" response*

 

[SunriseChampion]

I was asking the person who said STC didn't deserve subway.

I love it when people say ridership isn't there for subway to STC. Yet we're getting subway to VCC and RHC. Makes zero sense. Nothing, and I mean nothing, grates on me like the Sheppard East LRT. It's just so blatantly stupid, nonsensical, shortsighted, and irrational it just boggles the mind.

Some people might say two subway lines to STC (Sheppard and Danforth) is too much. The flip side of that coin is, can you imagine the development that two subways to STC would bring?

Why would it be "too much"? Some people.
Never, ever. This isn't some out of the way loop to Uxbridge.

I'm with you on this one: grating is probably an understatement though, wouldn't you say?

It's not even about the development such a loop would bring....it's about moving people in all directions in the most efficient way. The future development would be a bonus.

Adam Giambrone et al don't understand efficiency, alas.

 

[SunriseChampion]

Scarberiankhatru, if I may ask: where in Scarborough do you live and do you travel the Sheppard corridor often?

I'm just trying to figure out what perspective you're looking at this from where it pertains to being a user of the system.

 

[Paleo]

I was asking the person who said STC didn't deserve subway.

I love it when people say ridership isn't there for subway to STC. Yet we're getting subway to VCC and RHC. Makes zero sense. Nothing, and I mean nothing, grates on me like the Sheppard East LRT. It's just so blatantly stupid, nonsensical, shortsighted, and irrational it just boggles the mind.

Some people might say two subway lines to STC (Sheppard and Danforth) is too much. The flip side of that coin is, can you imagine the development that two subways to STC would bring?

VCC and RHC subways are gross wastes of capital too, just as Sheppard is and would be.

 

[Ansem]

VCC and RHC subways are gross wastes of capital too, just as Sheppard is and would be.

A complete Sheppard line is a good investment


The LRT doesn't even go to STC. You need to transfert to a bus or the future SRT extension...

I do hope we get a candidate next year who has a diferent opinion on the matter.

 

[SunriseChampion]

VCC and RHC subways are gross wastes of capital too, just as Sheppard is and would be.

I assume you mean the subway.

The Sheppard Line will be a waste if, and only if, it is not completed. This is so obvious it pains me to repeat it.

 

[Dan416]

I suggest sheppard SUBWAY supporters message Mayor Miller on Twitter (mayormiller) and let him know you don't want LRT. Miller actually uses twitter. Maybe if he gets a flood of tweets in support of the sheppard subway he'll change his mind. We have to assume he's a rational person.

 

[Second_in_pie]

It won't be 10km/hr faster, certainly not according to the EA (which is probably optismistic already). Can buses not use signal priority?

I didn't say it'd be over-capacity...come now, there's no need to pick further fights.

Sufficient to do what? What is the purpose of the line?

You don't understand that the subway already exists? That maybe additional transit infrastructure along the corridor should possibly (get ready, crazy thought coming up!) be an extension of the existing subway line, and not an 'extension' using a second line?

There's lots of places where light rail is warranted and needed...maybe a corridor with an unfinished subway line (the paint is practically still wet) isn't the best and highest priority place for it.

*cue "subways can't go on forever" response*

I am assuming that the purpose of the LRT is to provide rapid transit to people in the area, but then again, I might be mistaken.

I don't think I've said I thought a subway on sheppard was a bad idea necessarily, but that an LRT could do the job. A subway would obviously be better than an LRT, and probably would be a worthy investment, considering the massive development that 4 stations on the existing subway has already created.
I will have to agree with you that there are way better places for TC to get started, and that would give the TTC some time to get their head over the notion of more subways. If they were willing to begin construction on new subway lines, I would not object if they announced they would be finishing the sheppard subway.

Not the response you were looking for, but Sheppard is nowheres near "forever," like YUS will be after it's extensions, and a subway to STC won't be near "forever" either.

 

[Hipster Duck]

I am assuming that the purpose of the LRT is to provide rapid transit to people in the area, but then again, I might be mistaken.

I don't think I've said I thought a subway on sheppard was a bad idea necessarily, but that an LRT could do the job.

Well, here's the thing: a real LRT qualifies as rapid transit, for sure, but a Transit City "LRT" does not.

Consider:

Versus

 

[waterloowarrior]

Tramsit City?

 

[kEiThZ]

It's not rapid transit when you are moving only marginally faster than the bus. I believe the EA called for 22-25 kph speeds. That's 20%+ slower than a subway would be.

I am not opposed to LRT, but the TTC should be more truthful about its limitations especially as implemented in Transit City.

 

[Hipster Duck]

I am assuming that the purpose of the LRT is to provide rapid transit to people in the area, but then again, I might be mistaken.

I don't think I've said I thought a subway on sheppard was a bad idea necessarily, but that an LRT could do the job.

Well, here's the thing: a real LRT qualifies as rapid transit, for sure, but a Transit City "LRT" does not.

Consider:

Versus

 

[andomano]

The Transit City LRTs will be rapid...... in comparison with the Queen car.