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Transit City Plan

Which transit plan do you prefer?

  • Transit City

    Votes: 95 79.2%

  • Ford City

    Votes: 25 20.8%
  • Total voters
    120
nfitz said:
Ah, you got me. Miller did indeed cancel that.

I guess that's one way of saying it.
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Miller also cancelled a DRL study - not sure if that counts.

Sorry for the way I phrased my post, but I wanted to remind folks that the Eglinton Crosstown replaced 2.5 projects (partial SRT Extension, Sheppard East LRT, and Finch West LRT) with one. The way the provincial finances are now, I think all other projects would be off the table for the next 4 years (no funding announcements) regardless of who the mayor was. DRL may have the best chance if the city lobbies properly, since there appears to be some advantage to GO as well, and the province cares more about the GO riders than TTC riders since they live in the key swing ridings.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Just when you thought Toronto doesn't get enough news coverage in the US....... www.thetransportpolitic.com
What a sad and pathetic state of affairs.
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I have a bridge to sell if you think that our Transit disasters were not well known. Most of North America at least the transit buffs know Toronto has one of the worst systems around when it comes to non bus transit.
 
Nick. said:
I would gladly pay a 1¢ municipal sales tax if it went directly to infrastructure. Would other residents?
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I agree that there should be a 1¢ municipal sales tax if it went directly to infrastructure. In fact, I am willing to pay a penny if it would mean better transit.
TheTigerMaster said:
No. You know how it works in Toronto. The far right car drivers would inevitably say this is a conspiracy by the " elite transit riding communist torontonians" to destroy car travel in Toronto.

Don't believe me; read the comment section of Sun News.
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Most Toronto Sun and most National Post readers also spread their ignorant filth on the comments sections of more "progressive" news websites, such as the Toronto Star, the Globe and Mail (actually centrist), and cbc.ca. They genuinely think that a Homer Simpson lifestyle is much better than a Jane Jacobs lifestyle and compare people like Jane Jacobs with Stalin or Mao. They do not seem educated at all, since they think that personal insults and ad hominem attacks are the most effective forms of arguing (in fact, the best form of arguing involves creating a strong, relevant, and consistent point backed up with relevant and reliable evidence, refuting the central point, as shown in the chart below). Godwin's Law is often invoked on these online newspaper comments. Read here: http://rabble.ca/babble/media/whats-toronto-star-online-comments
707px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg.png


This is why I generally stopped reading online newspaper comments. I bet that these ignorant readers want to make Toronto become another Detroit or Bangkok!
 
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Johnny Au said:
707px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg.png
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This would be even more accurate if it were tilted on it's side and place on a left to right spectrum.

Needless to say, if anyone uses any of the following terms: Libtard, Lamestream Media, Liberal Media, or lefties, I immediately ignore anything else you have to say, because you have proven that you are not capable of exercising independent or rational thought, and you are therefore not worthy of my time.
 
gweed123 said:
This would be even more accurate if it were tilted on it's side and place on a left to right spectrum.

Needless to say, if anyone uses any of the following terms: Libtard, Lamestream Media, Liberal Media, or lefties, I immediately ignore anything else you have to say, because you have proven that you are not capable of exercising independent or rational thought, and you are therefore not worthy of my time.
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I have to agree with you completely. Unfortunately, the diagram was like this when I inserted it here (it was from Wikipedia) and I wish to rotate it 90 degrees counter-clockwise on a political spectrum (oh, I never knew that the Toronto Sun and sometimes the National Post kill off brain cells). Only Sun (and sometimes Post) readers call the Star a joke newspaper. Rational readers will think otherwise. This is why I prefer to call myself a "progressive" rather than a "leftist."

Regarding Transit City, I believe that good transit plans serve as high quality transit to as many people at the lowest cost possible. LRT throughout the city fulfills these requirements much better than an underground LRT segment under Eglinton in Scarborough and significantly better than the fantasy extensions of the Sheppard line. Thinking that "car is king" will only lead to the Bangkok-ization of Toronto, given that Bangkok is known internationally for its very high population (both in absolute numbers and in population density), very high traffic congestion, and a lack of effective public transit (and yes, many urban planners in Bangkok believe that "car is king" and look at what happened there). People in the outer suburbs would benefit greatly from Transit City, given that it provides rapid transit to those neighbourhoods. David Hulchanski's Three Cities thesis provides strong evidence that neighbourhoods far from rapid transit primarily fall under the category of "third city."
 
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gweed123 said:
This would be even more accurate if it were tilted on it's side and place on a left to right spectrum.

Needless to say, if anyone uses any of the following terms: Libtard, Lamestream Media, Liberal Media, or lefties, I immediately ignore anything else you have to say, because you have proven that you are not capable of exercising independent or rational thought, and you are therefore not worthy of my time.
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Is it just me or do people on the right generally seem less intelligent then their more liberal counterparts. Whenever I see a debate with a Sun reading conservative and a liberal, the conservative generally seems to base their arguments on name calling (libtard, commies etc...) while the liberal uses actual FACTS.
 
I strongly agree with the New York Times blog post linking intelligence with political affiliation. Interestingly enough, the study was done by Brock University in St. Catharines.

To be relevant to the thread, here is the latest Toronto Star article on the Eglinton Crosstown LRT:

Toronto Star said:
Mayor Rob Ford’s transit plan under fire

Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter

About 120 respected academics and civic leaders are urging Toronto city councillors to overturn Mayor Rob Ford’s transportation plans or risk crippling the city’s transit planning for the next century.
Among those calling for an end to what they say is a “war on common sense,” are U of T Cities Centre Director Eric Miller; planning consultant and author Ken Greenberg; former Toronto chief planner Paul Bedford and former mayor David Crombie.
Many of the players are the same city leaders who rallied last year against Councillor Doug Ford’s plan to put a Ferris wheel and shopping mall on the east waterfront.
They now say the mayor’s determination to tunnel the east end of the Eglinton LRT is a waste of billions of dollars that will deprive tens of thousands of daily commuters in other areas of Toronto of rapid transit for years to come.
“No private sector firm would be so wasteful in its use of company resources,” says the group’s letter, which also urges the city to restore plans for LRTs on Sheppard and Finch avenues.
“Clearly we’re deeply concerned,” said Greenberg.
The letter coincides with a plan by councillors to take the transit debate to a special meeting of council this week where Ford’s refusal to compromise on Eglinton could become the latest in a series of mayoral defeats.
Although he has avoided a strike with the city’s outside workers, Ford’s budget and waterfront plans have been shot down at council.
Sunday’s letter to council comes as a study from environmental think-tank Pembina Institute, also shows the previous Transit City light rail plan would be more effective in moving people and reducing pollution than either Ford’s underground plans for Eglinton and Sheppard or a compromise transit plan proposed earlier by TTC chair Karen Stintz.
“Subways are not trophies but a tool to be used very judiciously,” warned Greenberg, who urged Torontonians to consider that leading cities around the world are building LRTs and bus rapid transit.
“There’s no war on cars. What we are seeing is a war on common sense,” he said, citing a move by the mayor’s allies on the TTC board last week preventing the release of a report looking at the pros and cons of the mayor’s Eglinton plan.
Those arguing for subways regardless of their potential ridership and cost, said Greenberg, are “people hanging on desperately to a mid-20th Century way of life where driving is the be all and end all.”
What people want is good transit, with the reliability and frequencies of subways, said Miller. LRT can provide that on a separate right-of-way where it doesn’t compete with the traffic that hinders the downtown streetcars.
“Burying the eastern portion of Eglinton is simply a waste of money,” he said.
Putting the entire $8.4 billion that the province has committed to Toronto into Eglinton creates “one gold-plated line in one corner of the city,” said Miller.
The alternative, a return to an earlier plan to run it underground only on the narrower, congested stretch of Eglinton, between about Black Creek and Laird, would save about $2 billion.
Stintz had suggested that money could be re-invested in a busway on Finch and, as a face-saving move for the mayor, perhaps one more subway stop on the Sheppard line to about Victoria Park. Having failed to win the mayor’s support, it is believed that compromise plan is now dead.
“You’re making a 100-year choice. Focus on value for money and extending transit to more people,” said Bedford, who noted that the Toronto region’s population will grow by about 3 million, to 8.62 million by 2031.
“Don’t underestimate the power of surface transit,” he urged, adding 60 per cent of TTC riders already use surface transit. The Spadina streetcar carries about 51,000 riders a day versus about 48,000 on the Sheppard subway.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1126610--mayor-rob-ford-s-transit-plan-under-fire
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I once had a class taught by Paul Bedford. He is a very good former chief urban planner. I once asked him that if Rob Ford were to give you the position of chief urban planner, Paul Bedford refused, stating that Rob Ford is only good at destroying Toronto. It seems that Rob Ford's head is stuck underground like his transit plan, unwilling to accept very strong evidence from his opposition.

The right-wingers showed up on the comments section of the Toronto Star article with all the bigoted vitriol, preferring yes, ad hominem over hard facts, as usual. In fact, some of the comments are so bigoted that I will not quote them here.
 
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And it makes fiscally sense to build and constantly two forms of urban transportation in a city whose urban area only has close to 6 million residents? I would like to call BS on that one, we are not LA nor New York that can afford them. We can only afford one form of transportation, and personally I think Ford made the right call in killing Transit City.
 
Johnny Au said:
The right-wingers showed up on the comments section of the Toronto Star article with all the bigoted vitriol, preferring yes, ad hominem over hard facts, as usual. In fact, some of the comments are so bigoted that I will not quote them here.
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Some of those comments make me fear for the future of humanity.
 
blacktrojan3921 said:
And it makes fiscally sense to build and constantly two forms of urban transportation in a city whose urban area only has close to 6 million residents? I would like to call BS on that one, we are not LA nor New York that can afford them. We can only afford one form of transportation, and personally I think Ford made the right call in killing Transit City.
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By wasting $65 million from his precious taxpayer's pockets? That money can be used to feed hungry children, purchase more computers in public libraries, keep the subway stations clean, or keep some transit services active. I only agree with you on the part that Toronto has a limited budget.
gweed123 said:
Some of those comments make me fear for the future of humanity.
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It is scary that the Toronto Star comments make me wish I had never read them, but it is very true. Though I disagree with Blacktrojan3921's conclusion, at least Blacktrojan3921's comment is in the middle of the argument pyramid, unlike the Toronto Star comments.
 
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