Transit City Plan

[GraphicMatt]

With the DRL East, couldn't you get de facto 'express' service by increasing the frequency of GO service from Union to Danforth?

We continue to overlook the potential of our existing rail infrastructure. GO could do a lot more for in-416 transit than it currently does.

 

[accura407]

GO Transit is surely integral and part of the multi-modal mix but ultimately the current Yonge congestion levels have to drop or at least stay the same...but not grow!

The only way to do this is to interline trains from DRL into the Bloor Danforth so that commuters can choose every other train to bypass Bloor-Danforth

With all the "automatic train control" that we are putting in place, I am sure we can interline the DRL east with the Danforth line.

 

[gweed123]

With the DRL East, couldn't you get de facto 'express' service by increasing the frequency of GO service from Union to Danforth?

We continue to overlook the potential of our existing rail infrastructure. GO could do a lot more for in-416 transit than it currently does.

This is one scenario I looked at when I was doing my fantasy mapping. Have an express-local DRL west along the Georgetown corridor (trumping the need for the ARL), run them both through a tunnel under Wellington downtown, and then once it hits the rail lines at Queen East, have the local tracks continue north and become a regular subway line (up to Eglinton via Pape and Don Mills), with the express line continuing to Victoria Park station via the rail corridor. Just a thought.

The other option is to do an express-local LRT under Queen St, which would see the express branches become the Jane and Don Mills LRTs north of Eglinton (express south of Eglinton), and the local be the current Queen Streetcar route.

 

[Electrify]

Could automatic train control and good planning allow Yonge to operate express south of Eglinton?

 

[gweed123]

GO Transit is surely integral and part of the multi-modal mix but ultimately the current Yonge congestion levels have to drop or at least stay the same...but not grow!

The only way to do this is to interline trains from DRL into the Bloor Danforth so that commuters can choose every other train to bypass Bloor-Danforth

With all the "automatic train control" that we are putting in place, I am sure we can interline the DRL east with the Danforth line.

But remember, a lot of the ridership on the Danforth segment comes from the SRT, which will now be routed along Eglinton. I would even venture to say that the amount of transfers onto the DRL at the Science Centre station would be higher than at Pape-Danforth station.

This is one of the reasons why I suggested the LRT thing in my previous post, because then it could be interlined with the Eglinton LRT to go to the Airport and to Scarborough.

 

[Electrify]

SSiguy made a good comment in one of the threads: why not elevate it beyond the DVP? At the very least, between Victoria Park and Birchmount it could easily be done since it is very low density commercial, and only parking lots would have their views obstructed. The money saved could be used towards Sheppard, or even getting Presto on the TTC launched sooner.

 

[MisterF]

With the DRL East, couldn't you get de facto 'express' service by increasing the frequency of GO service from Union to Danforth?

We continue to overlook the potential of our existing rail infrastructure. GO could do a lot more for in-416 transit than it currently does.

This is exactly why further integration between local and regional transit is so important. We need the same type of integration that European and Asian cities have. With Metrolinx planning to upgrade the Lakeshore Line to an electrified, frequent service, (hopefully) fare integrated line, it becomes a de facto subway to Union. That frees up the DRL to provide local service further north, which is likely why Metrolinx maps show a DRL along Queen. A DRL also can also be extended up Don Mills and Jane.

 

[gweed123]

SSiguy made a good comment in one of the threads: why not elevate it beyond the DVP? At the very least, between Victoria Park and Birchmount it could easily be done since it is very low density commercial, and only parking lots would have their views obstructed. The money saved could be used towards Sheppard, or even getting Presto on the TTC launched sooner.

I completely agree with this. Personally, I think it should be elevated in-median all the way to Kennedy. I mean, if the City had room to put in an LRT ROW down the middle, they have room to put in a grassed median with an elevated guideway. Vancouver does it pretty well, I'm sure they could give their planners and engineers a call for some tips.

 

[leopetr]

But remember, a lot of the ridership on the Danforth segment comes from the SRT, which will now be routed along Eglinton. I would even venture to say that the amount of transfers onto the DRL at the Science Centre station would be higher than at Pape-Danforth station.

This is one of the reasons why I suggested the LRT thing in my previous post, because then it could be interlined with the Eglinton LRT to go to the Airport and to Scarborough.

What would be the staging for that?

2020: Eglinton central section and Scarborough RT
2025: Eglinton East
2030: Eglinton West
2035: DRL Pape to Queen
2040: DRL Eglinton to Danforth (Interlining to the east?)
2045: DRL Yonge to Roncesvalles
2050: DRL Bloor to Eglinton (Interlining to the west?)

 

[gweed123]

What would be the staging for that?

2020: Eglinton central section and Scarborough RT
2025: Eglinton East
2030: Eglinton West
2035: DRL Pape to Queen
2040: DRL Eglinton to Danforth (Interlining to the east?)
2045: DRL Yonge to Roncesvalles
2050: DRL Bloor to Eglinton (Interlining to the west?)

That's pretty much it, yeah, although the scheduling could be compacted a bit. With Eglinton West however, I would include express tracks there as well, that way the DRL could run express to the airport. The WWLRT would link into the local tracks of the DRL at Queen and Roncesvalles. The local stations along the Queen stretch would need to only be slightly larger than what the current Harbourfront station is on the Harbourfront Streetcar line (ie not an expansive station like an actual subway station, but more a hybrid between an underground streetcar station and a full subway station). This would reduce on costs, and allow local stations to be placed closer together, catering more towards Queen Street's local nature, while still providing the parallel express route.

 

[sixrings]

What would be the staging for that?

2020: Eglinton central section and Scarborough RT
2025: Eglinton East
2030: Eglinton West
2035: DRL Pape to Queen
2040: DRL Eglinton to Danforth (Interlining to the east?)
2045: DRL Yonge to Roncesvalles
2050: DRL Bloor to Eglinton (Interlining to the west?)

If thats the time line we are in BIG trouble... Im relaitvely young (32) and I will be almost dead by the time your estimated DRL is complete... I thought the DRL was profitable yesterday and would run over capacity if it opened today? If thats true shouldnt they be ok with taking the loan to make the thing NOW.

Also How much was Sheppard East LRT suppose to cost? Im thinking even if you add a BILLION dollars to convert the Sheppard subway it would still be cheaper to get a crosstown LRT which could actually go from weston Sheppard to Sheppard EAST then it is to build ROB FORD Sheppard Subway.....

Also we are going to be the Big city looking at 905 and wondering why we were so stupid to not adopt LRT ourselves once HUrontario is complete... LRT might not be as fast as subway but it would have more capacity be more reliable and be faster then any bus system we could come up with. Iam sure in hignsight we will rather have had the FULL TC instead of these two lines...

 

[GraphicMatt]

The Sheppard East LRT was to cost about a billion dollars. I've heard an estimate of 600m for conversion of the existing subway to Light Rail.

The timeline for the DRL probably hinges on when exactly overcrowding on the Yonge line gets completely intolerable.

 

[gweed123]

The timeline for the DRL probably hinges on when exactly overcrowding on the Yonge line gets completely intolerable.

Correction: Completely intolerable, then add about 10 years until the thing actually opens, haha. Governments don't exactly take a proactive approach when it comes to transit expansion. They take the same approach with building transit as they do fixing watermains: "when it stops working, then we'll talk about fixing it".

 

[nfitz]

The one advantage of us building these new Sheppard and Eglinton subways that will dump everything onto Yonge - and even extending Yonge - is that it will push the subway to the breaking point, where there is no choice but building the DRL. Might be the only way we ever get it.

 

[GraphicMatt]

It absolutely is, which is why I had little sympathy for those who complained that Transit City wold only cause further crowding issues on Yonge. Of course it will. (Or would have.) It needs to. The overcrowding issue, coupled with a provincial desire to expand the Yonge line northward into Richmond Hill, are the only real mechanisms this city has for successfully getting the DRL built in our lifetimes.