Transit City Plan

[lead82]

Ford will make damn sure that his new plan passes. I have no doubt that the mushy middle couldn't care more about the outer reaches of suburban Toronto. Most of the moderate city councillors wards lie along or close to Eglinton. They will certainly want to show progress by supporting this plan and getting construction started. Yes the new plan pits more money into Eglinton but 20 years from now it will be money well spent as Eglinton is more urban an has more places to urbanize than Sheppard. As for the Finch line, it makes no sense to out LRT there as it will be an orphan line with no connection to the rest of the city. All they need to do is put in some express bus service like Finch East has and/or use the hydro right of way to bypass the traffic zones.

 

[Rainforest]

Then we wait for the next election. That's the beauty of democracy.

That's not a great strategy. First of all, if the provincial government changes and the new government sees that Toronto can't even start building anything, it will feel a strong temptation to trim the provincial commitments and use the funds for deficit reduction.

Even if that does not happen, the promised amount gradually loses its purchasing power as time goes by. The price inflation in the construction industry is significantly higher then the general index.

BTW, what stalemates have we got now? I am amazed that the council kept on getting strong-armed by Ford. So much for the "the mayor has only one vote" argument.

My understanding is that the mayor has only one vote when it comes to voting, but the mayor has a huge advantage when choosing the agenda. A determined opposition in the council can block the mayor's undertakings, but cannot advance its own agenda if the mayor simply does not act on their proposals.

 

[Eug]

Ford will make damn sure that his new plan passes.

I would be completely shocked if the plan doesn't pass with flying colours. It was something like just eight councillors that were vocally opposed to it. Eight.

Glenn De Baeremaeker (Scarborough Centre - 38) <-- Personally I think a lot of his constituents would consider him foolish for opposing a plan that brings subway to STC.
Anthony Perruzza (York West - 08)
Janet Davis (Beaches-East York - 31)
Raymond Cho (Scarborough-Rouge River - 42) <-- One of the big losses in the new plan IMO is the extension NE beyond STC.
Gord Perks (Parkdale-High Park - 14)
Adam Vaughan (Trinity-Spadina - 20)
Mary Fragedakis (Toronto-Danforth - 29)
Joe Mihevc (St. Paul's - 21) <-- Personally I think a lot of his constituents would consider him foolish for opposing a plan that still includes subway in his ward.

Yes the new plan pits more money into Eglinton but 20 years from now it will be money well spent as Eglinton is more urban an has more places to urbanize than Sheppard. As for the Finch line, it makes no sense to out LRT there as it will be an orphan line with no connection to the rest of the city. All they need to do is put in some express bus service like Finch East has and/or use the hydro right of way to bypass the traffic zones.

Bus would be fine if implemented properly, but we don't actually know what the plan is for Finch besides that it is "enhanced bus service".

 

[Electrify]

But the right is also pro-car, that's the only reason Ford took the underground side.

That's besides the point. The point I'm getting at is that I think a lot of people are more upset at this outcome because Ford was responsible for it, rather than if this is a good plan or not.

 

[Eug]

That's besides the point. The point I'm getting at is that I think a lot of people are more upset at this outcome because Ford was responsible for it, rather than if this is a good plan or not.

Funny you should mention that. A few lefties I know are now accusing me of being a Ford supporter, because I like the plan. However, they ignore the fact that I never voted for the guy, and was critical of his pro-Sheppard subway plan before, and his ambivalence toward Eglinton.

I like the plan now because it's pro-Eglinton, and not really pro-Sheppard (despite his claim it is).

 

[lafard]

But neither De Baeremaeker nor Mihevc are gaining anything that wasn't already planned under the original Transit City... De Baeremaeker is possibly losing something depending on whether the SRT extension would have had another stop in his ward.

 

[Tulse]

A lot of people are upset because this gives us far less transit than TC, and because the Sheppard funding is imaginary.

 

[Eug]

But neither De Baeremaeker nor Mihevc are gaining anything that wasn't already planned under the original Transit City... De Baeremaeker is possibly losing something depending on whether the SRT extension would have had another stop in his ward.

De Baeremaeker is gaining another subway to STC. That's a big deal IMO. I agree that the loss of the extension to the SRT route is a disappointment though.

As for Mihevc it's the status quo essentially. My point is that if he voted against Ford's plan and Ford's plan was defeated, his constituents would skewer him. In fact, I think the same thing would be true for De Baeremaeker too.

I think the reason they're being vocal is because they can get away with it, in that they're already in Ford's bad books anyway, and they know Ford's plan will still pass without their vote.

 

[nfitz]

That's besides the point. The point I'm getting at is that I think a lot of people are more upset at this outcome because Ford was responsible for it, rather than if this is a good plan or not.

If the plan had kept the Finch LRT and not cancelled the SRT extension past Scarborough Centre, I'd have been not upset.

People are upset, because the plan is mind-bogglingly bad ... even the media are saying it will set transportation in Toronto back a generation.

 

[gweed123]

If the plan had kept the Finch LRT and not cancelled the SRT extension past Scarborough Centre, I'd have been not upset.

People are upset, because the plan is mind-bogglingly bad ... even the media are saying it will set transportation in Toronto back a generation.

It is kind of funny, the left and the right are both bashing this plan, but for completely different reasons. The left are bashing it because it is replacing Transit City, and the right is bashing it because the Sheppard subway proposal is fiscally irresponsible. Both of which you don't exactly need 6 degrees of separation to trace back to Ford.

Hopefully this remains a political hot-topic until the Provincial election campaign. McGuinty can make some real gains with this, especially if he promises additional funding to 'bring back' some of those Transit City lines that were lost (he would likely stress that it's because of Ford, which it is).

 

[nfitz]

I'm not sure the electorate is really sophisticated enough to buy into such a precise promise. Many just don't seem to get it. What we need is working at-grade LRT somewhere in 416/905 to start making people say "we want it too".

 

[Eug]

I'm not sure the electorate is really sophisticated enough to buy into such a precise promise. Many just don't seem to get it. What we need is working at-grade LRT somewhere in 416/905 to start making people say "we want it too".

I think part of the problem is that the at-grade rail lines that were recently put in just royally PO'd everyone. For example, St. Clair. I personally don't mind that line, but its construction certainly didn't instill confidence. What also is true is that streetcar isn't LRT, but nonetheless it's left a bad taste in people's mouths.

P.S. I will also say that when I'm driving in that area, I usually don't drive along St. Clair. Too crowded.

 

[nfitz]

P.S. I will also say that when I'm driving in that area, I usually don't drive along St. Clair. Too crowded.

That was true for me before they even started construction. To tell the truth I haven't ended up driving along St. Clair since before construction began, and it it didn't work well then. But it's not my side of town ...

Is there anyone who drives around their regularly both before and after and can speak to how the car traffic has changed? All reports I've heard are the streetcar service itself is much improved from what it was before they started.

 

[gweed123]

That was true for me before they even started construction. To tell the truth I haven't ended up driving along St. Clair since before construction began, and it it didn't work well then. But it's not my side of town ...

Is there anyone who drives around their regularly both before and after and can speak to how the car traffic has changed? All reports I've heard are the streetcar service itself is much improved from what it was before they started.

I've driven it occasionally, and for a driver, it's kind of a mess. The lanes weave back and forth constantly (left turn lanes, parking lanes, etc), and the lanes seem very very narrow. Overall, it's not a very pleasant driving experience, even compared to a street like Bloor.

 

[nfitz]

I've driven it occasionally, and for a driver, it's kind of a mess. The lanes weave back and forth constantly (left turn lanes, parking lanes, etc), and the lanes seem very very narrow. Overall, it's not a very pleasant driving experience, even compared to a street like Bloor.

Sounds like driving in Europe! But how is congestion when driving now, compared to driving previously.