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Transit City: Finch-Sheppard Corridor

hmm, I'd like to get a more detailed explanation regarding what that implies, it seems up in the air to me. Moreover, this is not the TTC it is metrolinks!
 
There is one point that needs to be made:

Under the current framework, Metrolinx will be the lead agency implementing the RTP. They will be responsible for the design and building of the lines, and will work with the municipalities for issues specific to each line. While the TTC and York Region are leading the EAs for Transit City and the Yonge Subway extension, respectively, these are Metrolinx projects at the end of the day. In addition, Metrolinx (the province) will own the deed to all of these lines. However, the day to day operations will likely be the responsibility of the municipality.

While this framework may change, this is the way the lines are being planned now. The legacy projects which are already fully funded are exempt from this.
 
Not the Transit City plan. The actual original plan where the subway runs from Yonge to Scarborough Centre. The plan that is included in the official plan, and that has been the intended route for decades.
 
unimaginative2 said:
Not the Transit City plan. The actual original plan where the subway runs from Yonge to Scarborough Centre. The plan that is included in the official plan, and that has been the intended route for decades.
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Ah, yes. Nope, that plan is not being considered.
 
DavidH said:
I don't see any indication that a conversion of the existing subway to LRT is being considered. It's true that one of the scenarios is an extension of the subway from Downview to Consumer's Road, but there is no scenario that goes the other way and removes the subway.

The information that was leaked at the beginning of September had a conversion, so this may be where the idea is coming from - but nowhere in the release documents - so far as I can see - does the idea come up. Or am I missing something?
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The question was raised at Metrolinx meeting and the answer was conversion of the subway to LRT is under review.

Norm Kelly threw on the table "can the Spadina line extension be converted to to LRT and if so it would be a seamless system using Sheppard LRT line". No clear answer was given.
 
Bad idea, the Spadina Line extension is supposed to attract some of the riders off of the Yonge Line, especially when the Yonge Line is extended.

It would be ideal to have the Sheppard Subway share the Spadina extension and finish Sheppard, it would connect 3 satellite downtowns and should greatly increase traffic on that line. Maybe even extend Sheppard to Malvern Town Centre.
 
M II A II R II K said:
It would be ideal to have the Sheppard Subway share the Spadina extension and finish Sheppard, it would connect 3 satellite downtowns and should greatly increase traffic on that line.
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That would help the Sheppard line, but the downside is that Finch W and Steeles W routes would lose direct connection to Spadina subway. Passengers from those routes going south would have to transfer twice, or to use Yonge line.

M II A II R II K said:
Maybe even extend Sheppard to Malvern Town Centre.
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The usage of the eastern portion will be very low by subway standards. Some even question the need of LRT to Malvern (although I think LRT will be useful).

The useful length of subway extension eastward is up to Kennedy, STC, or perhaps McCowan.
 
unimaginative2 said:
It seems a little odd that they're studying every possible permutation except the one that multiple studies have determined is optimal.
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You mustn't forget that this is a plan to take us to 2020 or 2025 or so, and the future doesn't end there. Even before the Sheppard East LRT plan materialized, plans for the eastward extension of the Sheppard subway tended to talk about three phases:

Phase 1 to Victoria Park (intermediate station at Consumers)
Phase 2 to Kennedy/Agincourt (intermediate station at Warden)
Phase 3 to Scarborough Town Centre (intermediate station at Progress)

Extending the Sheppard subway to Kennedy and then attaching an LRT line east from there doesn't preclude a further extension of the subway to the Scarborough Town Centre. What happens in 2030 and 2040 will be decided in 2020. What we need to decide now is where we'll be in 2020.

I've been following this discussion here, and I must say that I'm disturbed by the heated nature of it. Please try and refrain from ascribing conspiracies or some other personal motives to each other's political points of view, here, okay? LRT advocates don't have a hate on for subways. I know because I am one. I support Transit City, but I think the Downsview-Kennedy subway option here is an intriguing one. Indeed, I sort of regret that the York University extension isn't being built as a northwestward extension of the Sheppard subway.

But the question for me has always been how much good transit infrastructure we can afford with the limited resources available to Ontarian taxpayers. Show me the money. If you can prove to me that the money will be there for a Downsview-Kennedy Sheppard subway, AND a Finch West LRT, AND an underground Eglinton LRT, AND an LRT for K-W, AND a Downtown Relief LRT, plus an upgrade of the Scarborough RT, et cetera, then I'll support the plan.

As it stands, I'm losing confidence that McGuinty will cough up the $11.9 Billion he promised for the MoveOntario 2020 plan.
 
We'll have to wait and see the March 2009 budget. That will indicate where MoveOntario2020 is an actual plan that will be implemented or just another plan to put to the archives to collect dust with the other dozen or so plans.

I have a feeling we will see some action on this but not sure to what extent given the currant economics.

As for the Sheppard-Finch corridor, I had a chat with Adam Giambrone at a Yonge subway extension townhall and he is quite a big supporter of LRT. I asked him about the possibility of extending Sheppard west to Downsview or to York even and he was like, well that would have low ridership and he mentioned TTS surveys and all that jazz. I said that the surveys are garbage because they only show the existing environment and don't take into account latent demand that would arise if certain connections are made. He said why would anyone take a subway from York to Scarborough except for the few students. I said what about people who live in Vaughan and work in NYC or Scarborough or vice-versa. His stance was that the Transit city plan is good enough. While I laud his dedication to transit I think the TTC's Transit City plan has very big gaps especially in the Sheppard-Finch corridor. The current situation is a mess and does not allow for easy cross-town travel.
 
lead82 said:
We'll have to wait and see the March 2009 budget. That will indicate where MoveOntario2020 is an actual plan that will be implemented or just another plan to put to the archives to collect dust with the other dozen or so plans.
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If things get really bad this project might actually be accelerated both as a make-work project and reducing expenses for users.

The initial plan was to make payments over the lifetime of the system (20 years or so) rather than upfront. Capital borrowing for the government is still fairly straight forward and things will likely have bounced back before sizable payments begin.
 
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