Toronto's and Province's New 12.4B Eglinton/SRT/Sheppard Plan

[Jonny5]

Why the hell are we changing the LRV order? How many cities in the GTA are planning LRT lines right now? I doubt Waterloo and Hamilton will get anywhere near as good pricing on vehicles when they place their own orders for 25 cars. Send the extras there.

 

[gweed123]

Why the hell are we changing the LRV order? How many cities in the GTA are planning LRT lines right now? I doubt Waterloo and Hamilton will get anywhere near as good pricing on vehicles when they place their own orders for 25 cars. Send the extras there.

That's a good point. I'm sure the Hurontario LRT could use some cars.

 

[ShonTron]

Ottawa is right on the border between Ontario and Quebec. OC Transpo is one of the only transit agencies in Canada that is under the control of the Feds, not the Province, because it crosses provincial borders.

Is OC Transpo really under control of the feds? What about the STO (Gatineau) - far more of their routes cross into Ottawa. I believe both are municipal organizations with some provincial oversight and a special agreement that allows each to enter the other's territory.

So is Transit Windsor under the control of the United Nations or OAS because it has a route that enters another country?

 

[ShonTron]

I agree that Finch West gets the proverbial screw job, but when Keele North station opens in 2015 at the corner of Finch, that will make more of a difference for route 36 riders than a LRT in isolation. The long ride to the subway or the necessary transfer at Dufferin will be gone, Jane-Finch will suddenly be less than 10 minutes by bus to the subway rather than 40 minutes to Finch Station or 25-30 minutes with transfer to Downsview Station.

 

[Jonny5]

Is OC Transpo really under control of the feds? What about the STO (Gatineau) - far more of their routes cross into Ottawa. I believe both are municipal organizations with some provincial oversight and a special agreement that allows each to enter the other's territory.

"Controlled by the feds" is a bit of a stretch, but I belive what is being commented on is that since they operate in two different provincial jurusdictions it is agreed that federal labour and transportation laws apply instead of provincial. This had an impact on the recent strike. The provincial governments have no authority to order them back to work, or make them an Essential Service. It also impacts issues like bus maintenance, driver training and licencing and even how long time between shifts must be.

I imagine the Federal Government had to negotiate a complicated agreement with the U.S. as to what laws apply and how for Windsor Transit buses operating in Detroit.

 

[valvenis]

I agree that Finch West gets the proverbial screw job, but when Keele North station opens in 2015 at the corner of Finch, that will make more of a difference for route 36 riders than a LRT in isolation. The long ride to the subway or the necessary transfer at Dufferin will be gone, Jane-Finch will suddenly be less than 10 minutes by bus to the subway rather than 40 minutes to Finch Station or 25-30 minutes with transfer to Downsview Station.

The Keele North station doesn't benefit anyone travelling on a bus to Yonge and Finch.

 

[nfitz]

Actually, on 2nd thought, going from west to east makes sense, because maybe by the time the TBMs reach the eastern end, the eastern section of the line will be ready to be tunnelled. Ie the TBMs can continue seamlessly into the new section. Although they would have to be put back into the ground east of the Don Valley, because I seem to remember reading something about going above ground over the valley.

There are 4 TBMS. I believe the plan was to launch 2 of them late this year from the Black Creek portal, and launch the other 2 next year from the portal east of Brentcliffe, near the DVP. It sounds like that piece above the DVP will still be above-ground ... though I'd think they may have to move the portal from the middle of the road to the side. Though I assume that they were going to use the second pair on the short piece of tunnel on Sheppard from Don Mills to Consumers Road first.

Presumably they will just divide the tunnel between the two pairs, and relaunch again later.

 

[gweed123]

Is OC Transpo really under control of the feds? What about the STO (Gatineau) - far more of their routes cross into Ottawa. I believe both are municipal organizations with some provincial oversight and a special agreement that allows each to enter the other's territory.

I think STO is, yeah. That is why when the OC Transpo strike happened in 2009, they couldn't be ordered back to work, because the Feds were prorogued. This is also why the recent law declaring the TTC an essential service did not (and could not) apply to OC Transpo. OC Transpo is funded by the City of Ottawa, with some funding from the Province (mainly for capital projects), but in terms of legislating, it's the Feds.

So is Transit Windsor under the control of the United Nations or OAS because it has a route that enters another country?

That one I don't know, haha. They probably just have a deal with the State of Michigan.

 

[gweed123]

The Keele North station doesn't benefit anyone travelling on a bus to Yonge and Finch.

Sure it does. If the riders originated west of Keele (going eastbound), they will get off the bus at Keele, freeing up seats for people boarding east of Keele going eastbound to Finch Station.

This is the entire premise for the Spadina line. It was intended to intercept E-W passengers coming from the west, so that they hit another subway line as an alternative before they hit Yonge. The DRL has a similar purpose.

 

[nfitz]

Why the hell are we changing the LRV order?

One reason would be the first vehicle will be delivered in 2013, however it will be years after that before we need any.

How many cities in the GTA are planning LRT lines right now?

To open in 2013/2014? None. There's talk in those cities ... but nothing cast in stone. Ottawa might need first.

Deliveries run through 2020. The city could just as easily ask Bombardier to instead construct the rest to the design of their other units, and use them on regular routes, speeding up the implementation ... and having more spares at the end.

 

[gweed123]

There are 4 TBMS. I believe the plan was to launch 2 of them late this year from the Black Creek portal, and launch the other 2 next year from the portal east of Brentcliffe, near the DVP. It sounds like that piece above the DVP will still be above-ground ... though I'd think they may have to move the portal from the middle of the road to the side. Though I assume that they were going to use the second pair on the short piece of tunnel on Sheppard from Don Mills to Consumers Road first.

Presumably they will just divide the tunnel between the two pairs, and relaunch again later.

True true. At this point, I think the best-case scenario is that by the time the TBMs are finished their job on the central portion of Eglinton, the east potion will be good to start. If the TBMs aren't ready by the time the plan is, they may start building just the stations, to speed the process up a bit.

 

[nfitz]

Ottawa is right on the border between Ontario and Quebec. OC Transpo is one of the only transit agencies in Canada that is under the control of the Feds, not the Province, because it crosses provincial borders.

Why are you replying to a spamster who was putting in random text to promote the website that was in his signature?

 

[valvenis]

Sure it does. If the riders originated west of Keele (going eastbound), they will get off the bus at Keele, freeing up seats for people boarding east of Keele going eastbound to Finch Station.

This is the entire premise for the Spadina line. It was intended to intercept E-W passengers coming from the west, so that they hit another subway line as an alternative before they hit Yonge. The DRL has a similar purpose.

That only applies if the destination is somewhere neutral, where it doesn't matter which subway line you take to head south- for example - someone is heading downtown or to scarborough town centre.

My argument is based on a very specific situation: your end destination is to Yonge & Finch. Or conversely, you start at Yonge & Finch and your destination is Humber College.

 

[gweed123]

That only applies if the destination is somewhere neutral, where it doesn't matter which subway line you take to head south- for example - someone is heading downtown or to scarborough town centre.

My argument is based on a very specific situation: your end destination is to Yonge & Finch. Or conversely, you start at Yonge & Finch and your destination is Humber College.

Even then it would help, because 3/4 of the bus would empty at Finch West station, allowing you to grab a seat for the 2nd half of the trip. And the traffic between Finch West and Finch stations would be reduced, because half would be heading to Finch West, half to Finch. The addition of Finch West station will significantly alter the travel patterns on Finch.

PS: Not very many people's final destination is Yonge and Finch, so your scenario is based on a very small subset of the Finch bus' total ridership. So to say that adding Finch West Station "doesn't benefit anyone" is just plain wrong.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Agreement Reached Between Toronto and Ontario on City’s Transit Future


http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/...-toronto-and-ontario-on-citys-transit-future/