Toronto's and Province's New 12.4B Eglinton/SRT/Sheppard Plan

[Amy Rose]

Many heavily used bus routes in Ottawa used articulated buses (I'm thinking specifically of the 118). It wouldn't be a long term solution, but as a stop-gap way to increase capacity without making any infrastructure changes, I think it would be worth it.

I really don't understand the TTC's aversion to artics.

If the TTC chose the GM artics, we might of had more artics today, but Orion III is the main reason

 

[Brandon716]

If you're going to do it as LRT, might as well interline it with the Eglinton LRT out to the airport, instead of doing it along what looks like Lawrence. Use the Richview corridor to its full potential and 4 track that section if you need to, because building 4 tracks in 1 ROW would still be cheaper than building two 2 tracks in 2 separate ROWs.

This is a good possibility, I did a dream mock-up, not a "plan" and of course any number of concepts are great ideas.

If a subway could be built all the way up Don Mills, that sounds great, but I don't know if it as cost effective. I'm a fan of genuine rapid transit, regardless if it is 3rd rail or higher grade LRV's.

The DLR is a good link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Rail

I've had experience riding the DLR and it feels like light rail done right, and it carries 60 million riders a year just on the one line.

 

[44 North]

Here is my dream mock-up for a DRL after the current plan is completed. This DRL wouldn't be a subway with TTC style heavy rail cars, it would be a heavy grade LRT network with multiple, high grade LRV's per stop (articulated LRV's that could be around 100m in length, high capacity) with it mostly underground downtown and along Don Mills, above ground where possible to reduce costs (but never in the street/going through traffic lights). It'd go from Airport to Weston/Dixon connecting at the ends of St Clair and Eglinton LRT and down to downtown, hop the Don Valley and hug the new line of condos on the east side, then hop back over the Don Valley and up Don Mills to past Finch.

Interesting design. My thoughts on a DRL would be with a northeastern terminus at Don Mills/Eglinton. I'd also envision LRT, mostly at-grade from Eglinton to the southend of the Leaside bridge. From there it would continue underground. Pape would be the transfer-point with BD; and the southeastern arc would take a smoother curve towards downtown meeting the Yonge line at King.

 

[gweed123]

Have you ever tried riding the 85 or 39 before? Scarborough's no Mississauga.

I'm just going by the ridership numbers, and even the projected ridership. The LRT was projected to carry something like 3,500 pphpd east of Agincourt. I'm sorry, but that's even less than what the Woodroffe bus lanes in Ottawa carry. That's NOT LRT ridership levels.

 

[MisterF]

This is a good possibility, I did a dream mock-up, not a "plan" and of course any number of concepts are great ideas.

If a subway could be built all the way up Don Mills, that sounds great, but I don't know if it as cost effective. I'm a fan of genuine rapid transit, regardless if it is 3rd rail or higher grade LRV's.

The DLR is a good link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docklands_Light_Rail

I've had experience riding the DLR and it feels like light rail done right, and it carries 60 million riders a year just on the one line.

To put it in perspective, Metrolinx estimated that there would be 138 million annual riders on the Downtown Core line. That's only slightly less than Bloor-Danforth (144 million), with only 13 km of track and without going past Bloor. Build it all the way to Don Mills and it could rival the Yonge line. I've been on the Docklands light rail too and while it's nice, it's not good enough for a downtown relief line. Heavy rail is essential.

 

[gweed123]

To put it in perspective, Metrolinx estimated that there would be 138 million annual riders on the Downtown Core line. That's only slightly less than Bloor-Danforth (144 million), with only 13 km of track and without going past Bloor. Build it all the way to Don Mills and it could rival the Yonge line. I've been on the Docklands light rail too and while it's nice, it's not good enough for a downtown relief line. Heavy rail is essential.

Agreed. You either need HRT, or a 4-tracked LRT running express/local. A two-tracked LRT simply isn't enough. What's the point in having a relief line that would be so crowded that it would need a relief line?

 

[M II A II R II K]

And it would probably take away riders from the existing lines.

 

[kEiThZ]

Have you ever tried riding the 85 or 39 before? Scarborough's no Mississauga.

And Sheppard's not Eglinton either. Can you point out a single building over 3-4 stories, east of Lapsley, along Sheppard? And that's almost 20% of the SELRT route. Just Google streetview Sheppard between Lapsley and Morningside and tell me if you see anything worth more than an unsheltered bus stop there.

 

[drum118]

If the TTC chose the GM artics, we might of had more artics today, but Orion III is the main reason

TTC did have GM artic's. TTC sold 8500-8511 which were built in 1983-84 to Mississauga in 1986. GM drop that line when it sold the bus divison off.

TTC spect's are over rated as well over cost for their buses. There is no reasons for TTC not buying artics now.

 

[drum118]

And it would probably take away riders from the existing lines.

The whole Idea was to do this as it would free up space on those existing lines at major pinch point as well not forcing riders to wait for 1-6 trains to get on one.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And the DRL can have 7 or 8 car trains too. Or perhaps 10 when it finally gets built.

 

[Filip]

Completely agree with whomever posted that for the next municipal elections UT should unite and pressure all candidates to see the need for a DRL. Well, not only see the need but make it an integral part of their platform.

I'm sure Ford would be 'open' to the DRL, but he's concentrating on something else for now.

 

[M II A II R II K]

And produce PDF documents to back it up.

 

[Filip]

And produce PDF documents to back it up.

And don't forget pretty renderings! Luckily we have in-house staff for such things.

 

[gweed123]

Completely agree with whomever posted that for the next municipal elections UT should unite and pressure all candidates to see the need for a DRL. Well, not only see the need but make it an integral part of their platform.

I'm sure Ford would be 'open' to the DRL, but he's concentrating on something else for now.

I also mentioned that by that point the DTRTES should be completed, so we should have a solid report to spread around as much as we can, as opposed to just a pie-in-the-sky plan.