RedRocket191
Senior Member
That's all fine and good, but you cannot blame York Region for asking for the best. If you don't expect your government to provide the best services to its citizens then why even have a government?
Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
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That's all fine and good, but you cannot blame York Region for asking for the best. If you don't expect your government to provide the best services to its citizens then why even have a government?
Second_in_pie
Senior Member
To be quite honest, York Region will do well in the next 10 years or so with just the new ROWs. After 10 or 15 years, a subway might actually be plausible though.
I completely agree (except a bit for Sheppard; ) Eglinton and DRL need to be built as subways (and perhaps a Sheppard West extension) before the YUS Extensions.
I think that making Richmond Hill GO an Express route would be a much better use of resources. However, f they're going to make it express they should relocate Oriole Station so it's right next to Leslie Station. This would help people trying to get to work in North York to make the transfer as painless as possible.
Does anyone know how much it would cost to make Richmond Hill an Express Line? I'm curious now.
Chuck
Senior Member
Both Toronto and York Region received exactly what they asked the province for - subway extensions for York Region, and streetcar lines for Toronto. I whole heartedly agree that the DRL and Eglinton subway are much more needed, however Toronto had no interest whatsoever in either of these projects, so naturally neither was funded. Upset? Complain to David Miller and Adam Giambrone.
Although I agree that LRT could work in the Yonge corridor, I believe that GO's market is so fundamentally different that it will never offer any real alternative to the local transit that also serves the Yonge corridor. I'd hazard a guess that 75% or more of all York Region trips on the Yonge extension will have destinations north of Bloor, including NYCC, midtown, the Bloor line, as well as the local grocery store, your high school, a friend's house, or a doctor's office. For this reason, subway ridership from York Region will grow at the same pace whether or not GO is improved. Don't forget that GO completely bypasses the 20 or so subway stations located between Langstaff and Union.
Although I agree that LRT could work in the Yonge corridor, I believe that GO's market is so fundamentally different that it will never offer any real alternative to the local transit that also serves the Yonge corridor. I'd hazard a guess that 75% or more of all York Region trips on the Yonge extension will have destinations north of Bloor, including NYCC, midtown, the Bloor line, as well as the local grocery store, your high school, a friend's house, or a doctor's office. For this reason, subway ridership from York Region will grow at the same pace whether or not GO is improved. Don't forget that GO completely bypasses the 20 or so subway stations located between Langstaff and Union.
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urbanfan89
Active Member
I'll bet $1000 that if in 1954, Metro Toronto extended into what is now Highway 7, the two subway extensions being proposed will have already been built at least 10 years ago.
When will people understand that no one gives a damn about municipal boundaries? This is not Berlin in the Cold War.
Repeat: this is not Berlin in the Cold War.
Repeat: this is not Berlin in the Cold War.
Thank you...
When will people understand that no one gives a damn about municipal boundaries? This is not Berlin in the Cold War.
Repeat: this is not Berlin in the Cold War.
Repeat: this is not Berlin in the Cold War.
Thank you...
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Ich bin ein 905er und 416er.
There is no difference.
There is no difference.
xtremesniper
Active Member
Amen.
Honestly, I cannot stress how tired I am about this 416 vs 905 bull that's constantly being thrown back and forth in discussions about transit (not really referring to here, but various other places for transit discussion as well).
The sooner we realize that the world does not end at Steeles Ave, the sooner we'll have a much better integrated, complete, and efficient transit solution for our rapidly growing Greater Toronto Area region.
Paleo
Active Member
I hope you don't mean to imply that critics of the VCC and RHC extensions are doing so purely to fan the flames between the so-called regions. Talk about a red herring.
It has nothing to do with the fact that projected utilization of said projects within the 25 year timeframe predict that during the busiest hours--AM peak--that the $5 billion worth of capacity will be up to 80% unused.
It makes about as much sense as building a subway line out to the Beaches or to Malvern and yes I'd call those foolish expenditures too.
Ansem
Banned
well the 416 tax payers who needs a DRL subway,an Eglinton or a rapid link from Downsview to Scarborough Town center are raising their hands.
Their taxes will help finance a subway extension that most of them won't use and that wont be that beneficial for the 416 commuters while they don't have anything in the front of their doors.
If Wonderland was open all year long
If the ridership was worth it
yes you would have a point
but that's no the case is it
I came from Montreal and beside peak hours, subway trains to the suburbs are pretty much empty...and the ridership did justified an extension to Laval.
Imagine here...
I have nothing against 905. Your leaders did a good job. Its just my opinion.
If I want to punish someone, it will be miller and his team and I give my vote to a candidate who will understand that the 5th city in North America and 3rd transit company in North America needs to step up.
Well, when you'll pay taxes, you'll get the picture.
Dan416
Senior Member
Personally I'm not against extensions to Steeles on either Spadina or Yonge. But it's thanks to York's lobbying that either of them are even happening at all. Right now the TTC is obsessed with it's half-assed Transit City scheme. I still firmly believe in Eglinton as a subway, but the plan is to build it to be subway-compatible for when ridership reaches those levels, so that satisfies me for now. Really, we'll see how busy the tunnel portion is when it opens. As for Sheppard, it should definitely be subway. We already started it as subway. Now it needs to extend from Downsview to Scarborough Centre to make it a true crosstown route. Furthermore, the DRL is absolutely essential to the city's transit needs. Lastly, the SRT is a mistake and should be replaced with subway yesterday.
urbanfan89
Active Member
xtremesniper
Active Member
I agree with urbanfan89. There is a lot of density on Yonge St north of Steeles that many in the 416 have never seen before. The Viva buses, running at 10 minute max frequencies are usually very busy, and are getting busier as the months go by and more people start taking transit. By the time the subway gets around to completion, there will be plenty of ridership to justify it.
The Spadina extension is another matter altogether. As a resident of York Region, I think it's a big waste of time. I firmly believe the only reason why Vaughan gets so much crap done for it all the time is because people seem to get this impression that it's a "city", and they seem to have a lot of lobbying power for some sick twisted reason. Vaughan is no better or no more of a city than the towns of Richmond Hill or Markham. I honestly dislike too many things about Vaughan at this point. It's a shame I have to travel through it to get to my school. And I know that this post will come off the wrong way to some people here, but I don't really feel like justifying why I dislike Vaughan so much. Simply put, they do everything so damn ass-backwards.
The Spadina extension is another matter altogether. As a resident of York Region, I think it's a big waste of time. I firmly believe the only reason why Vaughan gets so much crap done for it all the time is because people seem to get this impression that it's a "city", and they seem to have a lot of lobbying power for some sick twisted reason. Vaughan is no better or no more of a city than the towns of Richmond Hill or Markham. I honestly dislike too many things about Vaughan at this point. It's a shame I have to travel through it to get to my school. And I know that this post will come off the wrong way to some people here, but I don't really feel like justifying why I dislike Vaughan so much. Simply put, they do everything so damn ass-backwards.
Amphibius
Banned
I don't think anyone is irrationally up in arms about the VCC/RHC subway extensions just because they're in a different territory. It's about prioritizing transit goals and objectives. For many people it'd rank like a #5 after Queen/DRL, Eglinton, Scarborough and Mississauga lines/extensions. And this has everything to do with the higher population densities and poorer quality of service these areas are receiving why I think this.
Anth
Active Member
I wholeheartedly agree, yet this completely valid argument never seems to get any traction when it comes to extending the Bloor line...
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
There's a good reason why it doesn't: the argument is not at all valid for the Bloor line, which would intersect with the parallel Milton at least 3 times. The Richmond Hill line is not at all a substitute for the areas directly served by the Yonge extension, except for areas at and north of the 407, and even then it's a substitute only for trips straight downtown or (at some future point) trips that connect to transit lines that don't exist yet, like the Midtown GO line, to random suburban spots, and not at all a substitute for Yonge-Yonge trips like the ones Chuck explicitly mentioned...these trips are already quite substantial in number and that number is rising and will explode given the subway extension, redevelopments in the pipeline, and dealing with the double fare. X place or Y city deserves a subway is simply not enough to warrant a transit line. Common sense.
Anth
Active Member
But even in the best-case electrified regional rail scenario for Milton, rapid *local* transit between Hurontario and Kipling still wouldn't be addressed. And the proposed Dundas LRT would still manage to avoid Sherway(!), along with its other obvious disadvantages in comparison to simply extending the subway to a more logical terminus (not necessarily all the way to SQ1).
I realize the solution will never be optimal, but I'm not convinced it's really that much different from the Yonge corridor. Westenders have jobs to go to, friends to see and errands to run locally as well. And it's all too easy to dismiss counterarguments as mere feelings of entitlement to subwaydom.