It sounds like you are saying that someone has been allocated $2.5B to service the whole of York Region over the next 10 years, and that that someone then decided that the best way to allocate it was to the Yonge extension. Yes?
So, on opening day come 2018, you are going to spend $2.5B to move 1,466-1,759 for 1 hour of service at peak time while supplying no service to the existing system, riders and call this good investment??
What about Off peak service that will be less?? I guess 3 train a hour is good service???
From a business prospected, poor investment since the taxpayers are going to be on the hook for this money.
I'm lost here, too. What do you mean? What numbers are you using? What do these have to do with VIVA ridership? And how does VIVA ridership accurately predict loading on the Yonge extension?
6,663 is peak ridership come 2031 for the extension north of Steeles to RHC using 10% yearly growth.
Ridership on the Whole Existing Blue line various between 36,232 t0 137,457 using 3%-10% yearly growth. Current ridership is only increasing 1.04% yearly.
The other numbers are exiting ridership on TTC routes that are 2-3 times higher than Blue and you see no push to convert those bus lines to subway? No.
I see. Presumably, then, you are saying that there is a final arrangement as to operation cost and as to construction cost, and that you disagree with that arrangement. So, by all means, what is that arrangement? Who pays exactly what proportion of what?
Current cost to move 43,000 riders on Sheppard is $10m and it will be higher on York section. Do the math for the whole year and see what the real cost is for the riders is on the extension will be. More than $3/trip. Are you going to ask all York riders to pay $4/trip so a small number of riders can use a subway?
And with regard to your disagreement, it sounds like your premise is that any benefits in reducing the friction involved in shuttling workers and shoppers in and out of the City of Toronto accrue entirely to those workers and shoppers -- who should therefore be required to pay for it -- and not at all to the employers and retailers at which the working and shopping takes place. Have you considered that that might be wrong?
There is a two way street as to cost and benefit for both areas, but do they off set the cost of this extension?? Not at this time nor 20 years from now.
To Toronto centre core.
Second, ironically, what would happen is that the likelihood that the Yonge Extension overwhelm the upgraded Yonge line would drop a fair bit. Many of the riders for whom that GO train makes the most sense -- commuters packing Steeles, Finch, and Sheppard buses to get to the subway and head south, and who would actually save time with a one-shot ride from Finch and Leslie or from Leslie station on the Sheppard line -- would be diverted.
With the development taking place and plan along Yonge in Toronto, ridership will exceed capacity in 20 years not factoring in 905 and lines feeding into it. One only has to look at North York Centre station to see over 27,000 using a station that was never plan for in the first place with more riders coming as more development takes place around it.
There is a huge cost saving for everyone currently using Yonge from Steeles to Finch by having the subway move to Steeles. TTC and YRT can remove some buses off the routes servicing Finch and reduce operation cost some what. Riders will save time since they will have less distance to walk to get from YRT terminal to TTC. At the same time, their travel time is cut in haft by going to Steeles than Finch.
If the Don Mills DRL gets built to Sheppard, it will remove 35% of existing ridership allowing room for future growth within 416 and some 905.
The New Rocket Train is not going to save as much room as claim by TTC. They have now lower peak ridership of 1,200 to 1,100. The section between Bloor and Union will still be a bottle neck even after the DRL is built.
Do you mean that the main difference resulting from the adding of a subway will be a reduction of travel time for existing users, with neither increased usage, nor lessened vehicle traffic, nor intensification and development? If so, then this is surely incorrect.
Improving riders travel time is a must, but at what cost. It has been said to improved travel time within 416 will cost over $100B. I know from my numbers it more than the $50B I see today to do this improvement.
You are not reducing traffic by building subways, you are increasing traffic gridlock as well greenhouse gas. Until you start taking lanes of traffic away and giving them to transit, more vehicles will use that extra lane with no transit traffic on them. Why do hear the call to get rid of streetcars?
An LRT from RHC on the surface with more stops than a subway, will attract more riders as well getting those riders to leave their car at home. Travel time will be haft of the current travel time. $300m for LRT vs. $1.5B for the subway is a better investment.
To be clear, I do see a subway going into York and stopping Eglin Mills over the next 50 years, but not today.
As for the GO line, it's going to be upgraded with more tracks to allow faster travel speed. Depending on the final routing down the valley either by CN or CP line, speed can be increase. CP line will offer faster service.
Just because someone said this is what the ridership on a website will be come 2031, it's a guessing game. TTC And YRT have no real numbers at all at this time. TTC came on late for this project and has not undertaken a really look at numbers for all the stations since they don;t have the time now.
It takes years to get a development off the ground and you need money to build it as well carry the cost until it's sold out. At the same time, you need buyer to buy these units and with the current market, it will be a few years before the developments see the light of day.
At the same time, not every hub will develop as plan and you only have to look at the BD line to see this after 40 years.
You can do all the great planning, but at the end of the day, it's the developer who will say what it's going to built and how it will look like.
The only way to get around this problem, the Region needs to own the land and cover the cost of building the plan. I don't see this happening.