Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[scarberiankhatru]

Surely they can fit a small train storage yard at Richmond Centre station...build a level of parking on top of it. Add in the Sheppard extension to Downsview and the Wilson yard that's being expanded as part of the Spadina extension and we're set.

 

[unimaginative2]

The yard site for the DRL is another interesting question. When the line was initially being planned, they looked at the Leslieville Toronto Film Studio/SmartCentres site. These days, it would probably make more sense to just connect with the BD line, at least until it's extended up Don Mills. The Overlea area seems like a potential spot for a mid-sized yard. When it's extended further north on Don Mills, there's a pretty good-sized patch of land at Don Mills and the 401 that might be suitable and is probably already government-owned. Another easy option is to use Greenwood, and shift some or all of the BD trains elsewhere.

 

[Chuck]

The key to increasing the capacity of Bloor-Yonge station is the addition of side platforms on the Bloor line. That would allow corridors and stairs to be built along the full length of the Bloor platforms to connect to various points along the length of the Yonge platforms.

Any renovations should also include provisions to the Yonge line to accomodate express tracks. This "simply" means digging out a space for tracks on the far side of the current platforms. Toronto needs to get some of its vision back.

 

[unimaginative2]

I agree that the station can be expanded, but we're still a city with only two subway lines. It's not surprising that they're overcrowded. It makes a lot more sense to provide new capacity by serving underserved areas, rather than spending hundreds of millions or more to rebuild an existing route. Subway technology on Don Mills and a Downtown Relief Line would comfortably relieve both the Yonge Line and Bloor-Yonge station while dramatically improving service to one of the most densely-populated parts of the city.

 

[Rainforest]

I wonder how are they going to perform an upgrade of Yonge / Bloor. Close those stations for a few months? Hm ...

Ironically, that would be easier (but probably unneeded) after the DRL/DCL is built.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Developing the Davisville Yard site could make up a significant percentage of the construction cost of the extension. Vaughan is also probably the best place for further yard expansion in the future. Perhaps they could try to co-locate something with Mac Yard. Yonge right up to Richmond Hill is probably too densely developed to acquire a yard site for a reasonable price.

Vaughan already has two of the country's biggest rail yards and the extension is supposed to help them create a "downtown." I doubt they have the land to spare.

 

[unimaginative2]

Well there's a lot of land at Mac Yard, and you don't have to put it right downtown. Transit fans often forget that you do need to put a yard somewhere, and with dreams of hyper-intensification at every stop, it gets kinda hard.

 

[Edward Skira]

Vaughan already has two of the country's biggest rail yards and the extension is supposed to help them create a "downtown." I doubt they have the land to spare.

Let's remember that the lands occupied by the CBC, the Convention Center, Skydome and City Place were major rail yards just 30 years ago. And they were just a few minutes walk from the tallest buildings in the country at Bay and King. The yards at Jane and 7 could just as easily become the same thing in the future. They just have to ensure VCC isn't just a bunch of towers in the park and WalMart. Not holding my breath.

 

[nfitz]

I wonder how are they going to perform an upgrade of Yonge / Bloor. Close those stations for a few months? Hm ...

Ironically, that would be easier (but probably unneeded) after the DRL/DCL is built.

Closing Bloor station (Yonge Line) for a few months was the idea when they discussed in the 1980s. I think the extra side platforms could be added to Yonge station (Bloor Line) without a closing - in the same manner the extra platform is being added at Union.

However with the new(ish) wide platforms at Bloor (Yonge Line), and if there were more stairs connecting to the 2 extra Yonge (Bloor Line) platforms, perhaps a centre island isn't necessary any longer on the Yonge Line.

But one option that may be possible once the ATR is installed is instead of a compelte closing, that both the northbound and southbound trains can be serviced from one platform, with the other being closed.

 

[drum118]

Well there's a lot of land at Mac Yard, and you don't have to put it right downtown. Transit fans often forget that you do need to put a yard somewhere, and with dreams of hyper-intensification at every stop, it gets kinda hard.

CN has been down grading the south-west yards and putting in new buildings.

Other than that, there is no room for expansion or development. Unless someone has a lot of land to combined CN and CP yards together, no one is moving too soon. With more rail traffic on the raise, need more room to store them when not in transit that leaving the yards tight.

 

[rbt]

I don't think the Bloor/Yonge study is about station capacity as much as dwell time.

If the TTC wants to get below 2 minute frequencies they need to make sure the train spends less than 90 seconds at Bloor.

Time how long it takes for the train to unload then load through a single set of doors -- regularly well over a minute.

Double the number of doors (open on both sides) and you halve the time required.

Dwell time at Bloor/Yonge, Union, and King are a few reasons trains run with frequencies above 2 minutes. Union is being fixed. The extension (Spadina and Yonge) will fix the turnaround choke points.

King isn't nearly as problematic as Bloor/Yonge station for dwell time.


I prefer the DRL be built first but setting out a long term plan on how to implement triple platforms and entering into agreements with the adjacent building owners to set aside the space during major renovations, etc. is worth while.

 

[drum118]

I don't think the Bloor/Yonge study is about station capacity as much as dwell time.

If the TTC wants to get below 2 minute frequencies they need to make sure the train spends less than 90 seconds at Bloor.

Time how long it takes for the train to unload then load through a single set of doors -- regularly well over a minute.

Double the number of doors (open on both sides) and you halve the time required.

Dwell time at Bloor/Yonge, Union, and King are a few reasons trains run with frequencies above 2 minutes. Union is being fixed. The extension (Spadina and Yonge) will fix the turnaround choke points.

King isn't nearly as problematic as Bloor/Yonge station for dwell time.


I prefer the DRL be built first but setting out a long term plan on how to implement triple platforms and entering into agreements with the adjacent building owners to set aside the space during major renovations, etc. is worth while.

The only way TTC can get space to triple the platforms on Yonge in the core is to tear down all the buildings on one side of the street. The foundation of those building are next to the station or is part of it.

 

[Edward Skira]

Guess what, one side of the street is currently empty!

 

[rbt]

The only way TTC can get space to triple the platforms on Yonge in the core is to tear down all the buildings on one side of the street. The foundation of those building are next to the station or is part of it.

Foundations in the way present challenges but in no way require the building be torn down. I do agree the cost of this project will likely be in the $500M range due to severe complexities but it is possible to do without disrupting anything above ground.


Incidentally, Sheppard (in 50 years) will be up for the same type of treatment on the lower part of the station. I hope that the land on both sides has been set aside to allow this work to happen at a moderate cost without massive re-engineering of adjacent buildings.

 

[Rainforest]

Foundations in the way present challenges but in no way require the building be torn down. I do agree the cost of this project will likely be in the $500M range due to severe complexities but it is possible to do without disrupting anything above ground.

Thanks for the info.

Now, if the Yonge/Bloor upgrade is going to cost around $500M while the section of Downtown Core line from downtown to Pape would be in the $1.5-2B range, which project will yield a better return on investment?

I am darn sure that it is DCL (a whole lot of new travel options for a large number of passengers), rather than the Yonge/Bloor upgrade (alleviating just one of numerous bottlenecks along the two severely overcrowded subway sections).