Ramako
Moderator
In that case, Lanterra would take the City to court and win, costing the city even more money.
Toronto Wellesley on the Park | 194.15m | 60s | Lanterra | KPMB
- Thread starter Mike in TO
- Start date
In that case, Lanterra would take the City to court and win, costing the city even more money.
isaidso
Senior Member
Sounds like the nail is in the coffin already. I guess its the usual 3 steps forward, 1 step back for Toronto.
fedplanner
Active Member
Wow! I'm floored by some of the comments made in this thread. Using expropriation powers to demolish the block of buildings along Yonge so the park can be extended? Really folks??
The community strongly desires a park on these lands. The provinced owned the lands which was surplus to their needs so the conducted a disposition process.
The city wanted to noncompetitively purchase these lands, far below market value, so it can built the park. That request was snubbed by the province. (In addition to S37 payments and development charges, the city also collected a fee in lieu of parkland. So the city has an account for parkland creating but probably nowhere near enough to acquire the property at the market value.)
Lanterra is the winning bidder and wants to develop a two-tower condo project. KWT, to her credit, is working with the developer so the footprint of the condo tower can be minimized to just one slender tower while the rest of the land becomes a public park.
I'm really excited about this development as it balances the needs and wants of the community with the rights of the developer.
And no the city does not have the right to refuse any development it does not like. Last I checked Canada has a rule of law. At a minimum the developer can build up to zoning and possibly more from OMB/court system since the zoning is outdated and not in conformance with Toronto's Offical Plan and Places to Grow Act.
The community strongly desires a park on these lands. The provinced owned the lands which was surplus to their needs so the conducted a disposition process.
The city wanted to noncompetitively purchase these lands, far below market value, so it can built the park. That request was snubbed by the province. (In addition to S37 payments and development charges, the city also collected a fee in lieu of parkland. So the city has an account for parkland creating but probably nowhere near enough to acquire the property at the market value.)
Lanterra is the winning bidder and wants to develop a two-tower condo project. KWT, to her credit, is working with the developer so the footprint of the condo tower can be minimized to just one slender tower while the rest of the land becomes a public park.
I'm really excited about this development as it balances the needs and wants of the community with the rights of the developer.
And no the city does not have the right to refuse any development it does not like. Last I checked Canada has a rule of law. At a minimum the developer can build up to zoning and possibly more from OMB/court system since the zoning is outdated and not in conformance with Toronto's Offical Plan and Places to Grow Act.
tomms
Active Member
Dan416
Senior Member
Maybe the city could purchase one of the least worthy properties and Yonge, demolish it, and make it an entrance to this new park from Yonge St?
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
There are no piecemeal measures here, you are talking about numerous different properties that are presumably owned by several different landowners with a laneway running down the middle. If you want to look at the "bigger picture" of a Toronto future consider that most of what exists on the west side of Yonge between Wellesley & Breadalbane Sts. is worthy of saving and that it will continue to serve shoppers, tourists and the community at a human scale which is much better than the base of a huge condo development (see Aura or upper Bay Street for evidence of this). I'm not so big on the idea of green spaces on downtown Yonge, it's a recipe for trouble IMO. What we could hope for is that the owners of these buildings (four of them in particular) restore and/or clean their frontages (brick, moldings) to make them more attractive, a problem with many of these types of buildings on Yonge, Queen E. & W., College W., Gerrard St. etc.
I'm disappointed that the parkland was lost but it's time to move on. I'm confident that Lanterra will propose a good looking project here (given their recent track record) and work with the community and the Councillor to create a much needed, attractive public greenspace on their land.
There's still the matter of crossing St. Luke laneway between the Yonge Street buildings and the property referred to as 11 Wellesley W. so there can be no continuous flow of green space. When it's all complete the park component will be easily accessed from Yonge or Bay via Wellesley or Breadalbane Sts.
Xray_Crystal_Junkie
Senior Member
Some of these comments, or rather demands, are ridiculous (I can think of many other less pleasant adjectives). Actually think before you type.
Mike in TO
Senior Member
There are a lot of moving parts in the background regarding the single tower solution.
Big Daddy
Senior Member
^ Agreed - having submitted for a two tower design is a very powerful bargaining chip. Imagine what they can achieve now to give this up and go to a single tower. I think it's brilliant.
Big Daddy
Senior Member
Well they proposed 45 floors plus 54 floors - that's 99 floors. Why would they cut it back to 80 floors just to give the city a park?
I would go for 100 floors and give them the park and let the city try to reduce it to 95.
fedplanner
Active Member
From a construction point of view, it doesn't work that way. More expensive concrete and building materials must be used at certain height points. I don't recall exactly what these points are, but the first one is at 5 stories. Building a building above 5 stories resulted results in a significant jump in the cost per sqft of construction for the entire building. I want to say the next price points are in the ballpark of 25 stories, 60 stories and 80 stories. A some point, it's not economical to build any taller.
Again, this is not my strong point, but if someone is knowledgeable about this subject, please correct me. It's an interesting subject area.
AlbertC
Superstar
Exploring a one-tower concept does not literally mean combining the floor counts. I have a hard time believing 100 storeys is realistically what they're going for. Neither is Wellesley a street that could handle such congestion.
DtTO
Active Member
If anything, the developer should've been encouraged to buy the low rise houses on Yonge, place the tower right against the Yonge/Wellesley intersection with nice streetwall, thus allowing for at least half of the Yonge frontage to become parkland along with the rest of the lot. This park should also be a "shadowphobe" free zone to allow the nearby blocks (especially along Yonge) to develop. I'd like to see at least one park in Toronto, outside of Yorkville, that is surrounded by highrises.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
Are we not learning how condos can destroy good, walkable streets in downtown? What we have here with 11 Wellesley is a great arrangement under the circumstances given that the city couldn't pick up the property. We get intensification and some green space. Win-win. If your thinking of something approaching that of a central park type configuration we'll never see that downtown, elsewhere - perhaps, but not in our lifetimes.
