Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

[Richard White]

The only way I would see a tunnel to the Royal York working is if they transformed the basement into a semi-public space like a food hall that forms a transition into the more private parts of the hotel.

Public transit is always nice to have in the vicinity, but not always considered that pleasant to be right beside.

It is interesting to note that the York Station Pub is or will so be closed in the basement of the Royal York. I was down there just over a month and a half ago looking for the BMO ATM and can safely say the only things down there are the bare tourist necessities like a barber, a small pub, luggage shop and minor overpriced toiletries. There is literally nothing down there right now that would warrant a trip by anyone other than a hotel guest.

 

[interchange42]

I guess that answers the question about re-opening a tunnel to the Royal York.
No bueno.
Going to be a Pilot Coffee place.

Meh. With Front Street rejuvenated, why bother?

In fairness, there is the new PATH connection that is supposed to go up York and will connect in with the west side of the Royal York.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

…and in fact, the old connection was not accessible: it was a narrow hallway with stairs at both ends. There is a possible new flat route, but…

That has already been built. Royal York put the kibosh on it. There's a temporary wall up on the east side of the NW Path junction just outside of Union, that wall could be torn down to open up into the Royal York, which was the original plan, but the hotel decided not to allow it.

To be fair I am not surprised. Any tunnel into the lower level of the Royal York is doomed to failure. There is very little down there for tourists, it is not the most glamorous part of the hotel and on top of all that it is a pain to get up from there.

For the amount of traffic it would bring I can see why the Royal York did not want it built. It would be more of a security risk than it would be useful. It is far easier to arrive via Front Street than it is to arrive via a tunnel from Union.

Perhaps in 1927 when air travel was new and travelling long distances by car was impractical the tunnel was needed but now not so much.

^except, you know the retail tenants the hotel collects rent from on the lower level probably like the foot traffic.

Honestly, other than speculation here I have never heard anyone from the city or the hotel suggest they were blocking a path connection between RY and Union......does anyone have a link to such statements.

It's not that the Royal York didn't allow it, it's that the Royal York didn't want to pay for it. I have no idea how many millions the connection to the City's York Street PATH tunnel would cost, but it was more than they were willing to cough up.

The Royal York's concourse level used to be full of shops, like any PATH hallway, in particular they had a terrific Canadian Pacific Hotels souvenir shop (all sorts of classic CP knickknacks were available for purchase in there), but they've dwindled down to only one or two stores still open over the years. Not entirely sure why they don't care at all, but maybe they have other back-of-house uses for the space, and they don't feel that whatever they'd have to spend to fix it up would be economically worthwhile.

42

 

[interchange42]

Thanks for the reply. What about the general 'decor', for lack of a better word, though? I mean, yes, I can see how the first level (beneath the Great Hall) can be very beautiful, but right now it looks dated, and I don't think that's just about the lighting or the lighting temperature. Plans here? Because right now there is a lot of discontinuity between this area and the York concourse. Clearly the two will and should be different, but right now they don't even compliment each other.

I am hoping that the ceilings and some other painted wall areas in the Front Street Promenade will be painted white when that area is done. They are currently a yellowy cream colour with plaster patching here and there, and yup, they look dated and awful. White would improve it vastly.

42

 

[DSC]

I am hoping that the ceilings and some other painted wall areas in the Front Street Promenade will be painted white when that area is done. They are currently a yellowy cream colour with plaster patching here and there, and yup, they look dated and awful. White would improve it vastly.

42

Yes, the ceiling plaster in the Front Street Promenade has nearly all been repaired and a few weeks ago one of the white hats hanging around told me that the ceiling will be painted only when all the construction in that area is finished. Makes sense and I did not ask him about possible colours - though the rest of the new paintwork in Union IS white so I suspect it will be too.

 

[torman404]

It is interesting to note that the York Station Pub is or will so be closed in the basement of the Royal York. I was down there just over a month and a half ago looking for the BMO ATM and can safely say the only things down there are the bare tourist necessities like a barber, a small pub, luggage shop and minor overpriced toiletries. There is literally nothing down there right now that would warrant a trip by anyone other than a hotel guest.

York Station is (was) the tiny place up the escalator on the "main mezzanine". The pub downstairs is Pipers.

 

[Richard White]

The Royal York's concourse level used to be full of shops, like any PATH hallway, in particular they had a terrific Canadian Pacific Hotels souvenir shop (all sorts of classic CP knickknacks were available for purchase in there), but they've dwindled down to only one or two stores still open over the years. Not entirely sure why they don't care at all, but maybe they have other back-of-house uses for the space, and they don't feel that whatever they'd have to spend to fix it up would be economically worthwhile.

This is what I was getting at. No sense in allowing people down there if you are sending them into the neglected basement of the hotel. It was likely not just the cost of the extension but the cost of sprucing up the concourse level to match the high class nature of the rest of the hotel. Nothing looks worse for a high end hotel than an empty neglected space. Not only that but it is woefully inaccessible, the last time I was there the most direct way up was via a staircase to the lobby. There is likely an elevator but it is not the most ideal or direct route.

York Station is (was) the tiny place up the escalator on the "main mezzanine". The pub downstairs is Pipers.

Thank you for that. I knew there was a bar there but could have swore it was York Station.

…and in fact, the old connection was not accessible: it was a narrow hallway with stairs at both ends. There is a possible new flat route, but…

I only ever took that connection once and maybe someone with knowledge of building code can chime in but perhaps the water penetration there had something to do with the closure? Years ago, it was closed due to water penetration or some other issues. Given it was built in the 1920s I imagine it was grandfathered in accessibility wise (given the other entrance to the hotel). With the amount of work and modifications needed to make it watertight and operational I can see it being taken out of the grandfather clauses due to the amount of changes being made.

My guess is that they had to do so much work that they would have had to make it accessible. Given the cost of doing so (or even the costs of fixing the issues) it did not make economical sense to restore it when the work is done.

 

[drum118]

Those who have wonder how the water will drain off the Moat Roof, that answer has been there from day one. There are steel beam framing into the columns and if you look close at the photo below you will see how it will drain.

There are steel plates running along the edges of the beams flanges, forming a trough about 4-6" to collect the water as it drains into it. Its hard to see, but each columns top plate has a hole in it to allow a downspout to travel inside the columns to a drainage system under the floor slab. Since the columns will be encase, you will not see the downspout.

What is interesting, there is no sloping to the drain that I can see. Since the beams are flush to the north wall, there is no sloping frames like the south, but has the same drain system as the south side.

 

[JasonParis]

If I recall correctly, PATH connection wasn't something Royal York particularly cared for.

Which is odd as their concourse mall has largely been a failure. I think bar announced it was closing last week too.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Which is odd as their concourse mall has largely been a failure. I think bar announced it was closing last week too.

My guess is they probably care less for failure of their concourse than not being able to govern who can access their premises - and besides, they probably don't see the link as the saviour of that space anyways.

AoD

 

[treplow]

The only way I would see a tunnel to the Royal York working is if they transformed the basement into a semi-public space like a food hall that transitions into the more private parts of the hotel.

Montreal has a good example of this with Les Halles de la Gare in between Central Station and the Queen Elizabeth Hotel.

 

[DSC]

I just walked through the VIA concourse at Union, the coffered ceilings are coming along (still not painted) but they have installed new (florescent) lighting that looks permanent and is, in my opinion, ugly. Sorry no pics but no doubt others will post some sooner or later.

 

[raptor]

I just walked through the VIA concourse at Union, the coffered ceilings are coming along (still not painted) but they have installed new (florescent) lighting that looks permanent and is, in my opinion, ugly. Sorry no pics but no doubt others will post some sooner or later.

The same ones as in post #4156?

 

[TOareaFan]

My guess is they probably care less for failure of their concourse than not being able to govern who can access their premises - and besides,

Hotels do not, typically, limit access to their premises.....it is, in fact, why they advertise their inside restaurants to the outside world....they like to make money off of people even if they are not staying at the hotel.

they probably don't see the link as the saviour of that space anyways.

AoD

Which is strange because all the stores/locations in that area were full before the link closed.....and now they are not.....seems to be some easy cause and effect relationship there.

 

[DSC]

The same ones as in post #4156?

Yes, these ones. Today they looked far yellower; the photo makes them look white - which seems more appropriate.

 

[yrt+viva=1system]

Does anyone know if the Grand Hall Chandeliers was re-tendered? I remember a while back someone posted saying that the city had cancelled the tender. Would be sad and not too surprising if the City cheaped out again and decided that lightning doesn't need changing now that the hall looks so much brighter after a bit of TLC.