Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[mrgrieves]

I've heard no such suggestion, and I've heard TTC staff say the opposite. It could allow them to introduce fare zones if they invest hundreds of millions in more equipment and infrastructure - but I've certainly seen nothing to say it is likely.

Can't say I ever speak with TTC staff, nor would I trust what they say, but I have read about this in the news...also keep in mind the subway will be extended all the way to Vaughan

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...once-presto-pay-card-in-place/article7964874/

 

[nfitz]

Can't say I ever speak with TTC staff, nor would I trust what they say, but I have read about this in the news ...

It only says Stintz is open to the discussion. That's because she knows exactly how it will go.

Even if they just did the subway, they'd have to implement a tap off procedure. Rather than a handful of gates at each station, that take the random flow of people arriving (and they just completely throw open when it's busy), they'd have to instead handle the people getting off a train and leaving the station. So instead of, say, 100 passengers arriving randomly over 5 minutes - you instead get 100 passengers trying to all go through the gates at once. You'd need double or triple the number of machines and gates that you currently have. And then you have the problem of where you put them - it would require massive modifications to many stations to have somewhere to put all the gates! I'd reckon your going to be spending $billions to get all the stations sorted out to do this. More money than that if you want to add enough devices to the surface vehicles to zone them (though that's probably unlikely - there's a reason cities like London have a single fare for buses).

...also keep in mind the subway will be extended all the way to Vaughan

The operating agreement with the Region of York for the extension says that "A single TTC fare would be charged to customers of the Spadina Subway extension within York Region". - now if the TTC goes to a pay-by-distance scheme or a zone scheme for all their stations, then they might be able to make a case for doing that for the extension as well. But the extension itself into York will be a single TTC fare.

 

[mrgrieves]

I noticed there is another thread about the TTC implementing distance based fares so I don't want to get into it. But I will say that there are transit systems in other cities that have figure'd out the logistical challenges of implementing this type of system. So it is not impossible. In fact most cities I've been to outside North America charge you when you exit the system.

The question is will the increased revenues from distance based fares make the required capital investments worthwhile.

 

[Dan416]

I just came back from San Francisco and BART (which is kinda a subway) is fare-by-distance. It's $8 something to the airport from downtown. And there you insert your card when you enter and exit the station.

 

[bleu]

I just came back from San Francisco and BART (which is kinda a subway) is fare-by-distance. It's $8 something to the airport from downtown. And there you insert your card when you enter and exit the station.

I have no problem with paying $8 to go to Pearson, or $5 from Union to Steeles/Kennedy; however, stop charging everyone $3 for taking a 6 minute subway ride!

 

[bleu]

This $20 to $30 price is insane.

Agree. First let's not compare Toronto to London as if it makes any sense. London is an alpha elite city, people expect it to be super expensive. Toronto is not. Comparison ends here.

It is funny that whenever we talk about our outrageous price, we start to compared with London and New York to rationalize it; when we talk about coverage/services, suddenly we don't mention that these cities have 20 subway lines and instead focus on their being much bigger.

$20-30 is probably what we will need to pay. We are in overpriced not nothing Toronto after all. morever, I predict chances are that this project will become a complete failure. Think about it, very few people in Toronto/GTA will have the incentive to pay that much money to take this train. It simply makes little sense.

Ask yourself, if you live in North York, will you come down all the way to Union with all your luggage, possibly after a bus+ subway ride to pay $20-30 to go to Pearson? Etobicoke? Scarborough? Be realistic, those folks are likely to have cars. Anywhere near the Bloor-Danforth line? Why not pay $2.65 by taking the subway plus a 20 minute express bus?

The only people who find it useful will be folks who actually live downtown, near Union station, and those who are close to the Yonge/University line south of Eglinton.

Should I mention again that anyone who travels in groups (2+) will never take this expensive train? A $55 cab makes a lot of sense and saves so much trouble.

I am under 15 minutes walking distance away from Union, and if this thing charges me anything more than $20, I will not take it. In the Easter Weekend, I went to Pearson to fly somewhere, and found a ride there for $30. Picked up at my door. Think about it. If this train charges close to $30, this whole thing will fail undoubtedly.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I don't get where people keep getting this 20 dollar fee from. Metrolinx has publicly stated that they have not set the fee for the service yet. I expect it to be around $15, but the $20 comes from the old plan that was privately funded.

 

[nfitz]

I don't get where people keep getting this 20 dollar fee from. Metrolinx has publicly stated that they have not set the fee for the service yet. I expect it to be around $15, but the $20 comes from the old plan that was privately funded.

They likely get it from the coments that Metrolinx and Bob Prichard made in July 2010, when it was announced that Metrolinx was taking over. An article in the Star back then said "It would also probably cost more to ride than GO's regular distance-based fares. Provincial officials say the plan will be based on the SNC-Lavalin parameters" and Prichard was quoted as saying ""We believe this is a good business that will recover its costs". Which sounds like it's still in the $20 range (in 2006 dollars) ... which would be closer to $24 now if they stick to what they were thinking in 2010.

Though given what's happened since then, a new Premier, and a funding mechanism in transit in place (perhaps) before the fare structure is announced ... who knows? Metrolinx though hasn't said anything yet to contradict what they were saying in 2010.

 

[OakvilleGreg]

I did a Pearson run a few weeks ago, from my office downtown, at rush hour. I paid $26.00 for the airport shuttle bus, saving about $30 by not taking a limo. Would I pay $20-$30 for this train, knowing that it will be faster not get stuck in traffic on the Gardner or 427? You bet! Would I have taken 2 subways and an express bus from end of the subway line? Absolutely not.

 

[mrgrieves]

My concern is that this project will be a white elephant that will be used by politicians as a rationale to not implement new taxes for transit funding. And you know what, if this thing really ends up as a premium service connecting Bay Street to Pearson at 25$ a pop, they will have a point.

 

[sixrings]

This project needs to be electrified and used as a western drl as a way to justify these new revenue tools.. Its the only thing that makes sense and can get up and running relatively quickly. Id like to here wynnes take on it.

 

[bleu]

This project needs to be electrified and used as a western drl as a way to justify these new revenue tools.. Its the only thing that makes sense and can get up and running relatively quickly. Id like to here wynnes take on it.

this is exactly what will happen when the project completely fails.

 

[bleu]

I did a Pearson run a few weeks ago, from my office downtown, at rush hour. I paid $26.00 for the airport shuttle bus, saving about $30 by not taking a limo. Would I pay $20-$30 for this train, knowing that it will be faster not get stuck in traffic on the Gardner or 427? You bet! Would I have taken 2 subways and an express bus from end of the subway line? Absolutely not.

of course.
however, will you still take it if you are travelling with one colleague? Will you still take it from where you live for a vacation?

 

[sixrings]

this is exactly what will happen when the project completely fails.

I don't think the liberals can wait for it to fail to convert it... If they want to tax via revenue tools the citizens of Toronto they are going to need to be able to provide some quick turnaround on infrastructure that residents can use. Currently the line is made for business travelers. that is just salt on a wound for residents who will be paying more in tolls, sales tax or whatever else. Convert it, and make the people happy.

 

[ssiguy2]

I don't get where people keep getting this 20 dollar fee from. Metrolinx has publicly stated that they have not set the fee for the service yet. I expect it to be around $15, but the $20 comes from the old plan that was privately funded.

Are you kidding me?

Of course Metrolinx has set the fee but are choosing not to state it as it would add fuel to the fire about how this line is a luxury liner and completely useless to most Torontonians and certainly any of the plebiens who work at or near Pearson. Metrolinx doesn't want the citizens to be able to get organized to stop this line before the PanAm Games.

This is a PanAm express and nothing more. It is a line made in desperation so that the world doesn't see that a city as large as Toronto doesn't have a rail connection to it's airport, the busiest in the nation. After the games, I think you will certainly see this line become, at a minimum, part of the GO system and ideally part of the standard TTC.

Metrolinx wouldn't care because it would only effect Torontonians and it has proven itself to be completely 905 oriented. The province and city on the other hand will face increasing pressure to bring this line into the standard transit system instead of Metrolinx's version of Niagara's Maid of the Mist.