Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

TOareaFan said:
In the current environment though, is there not a difference between a "GO" connection and a "UP" connection?
Click to expand...
Yes. Though even if they were 100% planning to add a UP stop at Eglinton, I doubt anyone would say anything until after it opens. No one there needs that kind of hell ... and I expect that the Weston ridership numbers will tell an interesting story no matter how little a fare they charge.
 
Application: Building Additions/Alterations Status: Not Started

Location: 7 STATION ST
TORONTO ON M5J 1C3

Ward 20: Trinity-Spadina

Application#: 13 141817 BLD 00 BA Accepted Date: Mar 28, 2013

Project: Transit Station,Subway, Bus Terminal Multiple Projects

Description: Proposal to reconstruct an easterly portion of the existing sky walk pedestrian walkway and for the construction of a new purpose built "fixed air-rail link terminal" , "UP EXPRESS". A portion of the new air rail terminal would be erected on the ("Metro Linx") rail lands. Alterations to the lands municipally known as 20 Station street are also proposed as part of this application. See also 12 294019 STE.
 
ssiguy2 said:
There will be an over growing movement to transfer the line to regular rapid transit as they see the well heeled whizzing by while they wait for a packed bus in the rain. This of course will be made worse by the fact that the average tax payer who can't afford the luxury liner will still be subsidizing it.
Click to expand...

Yes, those well heeled types like a couple living in a downtown condo paying the same amount to ride the rail as a taxi as they fly on a cheap vacation flight to Cuba where the air taxes far outweigh the amount paid for UP Express. We are talking luxury the majority cannot afford here. It will cost half the amount paid to see a concert and only the Trumps and the like go to concerts.
 
I just don't believe that Toronto which has such a small rapid transit system for it's size should be building transit for anybody but the people who are paying for it.

If this tourist and business class line want this rail link then let them pay for it. Yes, this will be cheaper than a cab but not if there are 2 or more people travelling together. Most people who go to an airport and area everyday are actually not travellers but rather employees and this line is useless to them.

Not only is this an offensive waste of tax payers money but it also uses up a very valuable rail corridor. I think after the games and electrification you will see this line become part of the standard TTC system with more stations.
 
ssiguy2 said:
If this tourist and business class line want this rail link then let them pay for it. Yes, this will be cheaper than a cab but not if there are 2 or more people travelling together.
Click to expand...

A taxi is $53 from downtown which divided by two is still $26.50 which is slightly more than the expected UP Express fare, so you need more than 2 people and the bulk of people going from downtown to the airport would be in a 1 or 2 person group.


Most people who go to an airport and area everyday are actually not travellers but rather employees and this line is useless to them.
Click to expand...

Yes, but regardless of what they charge it would be useless to them. If they charge a GO fare there will be no seats which will be useless to most people including the people who were willing to pay $26.50. I would have preferred a corridor diversion through the airport served by GO or a monorail to the tracks near Malton GO or the 427, but that isn't what is getting built. They determined that the target market were the people bringing business into the downtown hotels and restaurants, and the economy drivers of downtown Toronto.

Not only is this an offensive waste of tax payers money but it also uses up a very valuable rail corridor. I think after the games and electrification you will see this line become part of the standard TTC system with more stations.
Click to expand...

It is building a corridor capable of handling 4 tracks which is way more than it will need. The corridor improvements will benefit everyone. I don't know why you would want a TTC system on those tracks though... is there something about red paint and trackside power rails you like? Seems like a GO urban route like JR provides would make far more sense on that corridor.
 
But GO is only more expensive due to the current routes, stop spacing, equipment, etc where it is faster (due to less stops) and more expensive to operate. The TTC charges $5.65 for Downtown Express and GO charges $5 for Etobicoke North GO to Union Station, so it is the service being provided that sets the fare, not a TTC versus GO thing. A slower service (due to more frequent stops) would likely be similar in cost regardless of the agency running it.
 
We don't know what the UP fare will be. I will be pleasantly surprised if the fare is only $20, though I think it should be $10. I was looking at some comparators - apologies if this has been referenced earlier in the thread.

Newark to Manhattan - $14, 20 minutes to Penn
Hong Kong to Central - $13, less for round trip, 24 minutes to Central
Singapore to Downtown - regular transit, about $2, 34 minutes with transfer.

I don't understand the suggestion that the train would be too crowded if priced like GO. The train is to run every 15 minutes, offering more (if smaller) trains than any other line. If there is that much demand for commuter transit to the airport that is an even greater demonstration of what a waste of infrastructure this is.
 
Grimace said:
Newark to Manhattan - $14, 20 minutes to Penn
Hong Kong to Central - $13, less for round trip, 24 minutes to Central
Singapore to Downtown - regular transit, about $2, 34 minutes with transfer.
Click to expand...
Don't forget London.

Heathrow Express is about $31. $39 if you buy on board instead of in advance. ($44 if you go first class).
Or you can use the slower national rail Heathrow Connect which is about $15. Though none of those fares actually get you to Paddington to catch the train.

Even the tube isn't cheap. From central London it's $8.60 if you buy a ticket at the station. $7.80 if your using Oyster in rush-hour. Even off-peak (9:30 AM to 4 pm) using Oyster is $4.70.
 
You are forgetting something........................those cities already have rapid transit to their airports for the average person and plebians who actually work there. Toronto has it ass backwards. You build rapid transit to an airport BEFORE you offer premium service.
 
ssiguy2 said:
Toronto has it ass backwards. You build rapid transit to an airport BEFORE you offer premium service.
Click to expand...
We have the TTC express bus from Kipling station. It's average speed is much faster than our rapid transit subway lines. It's both transit and it's rapid.

Other cities have done the same as Toronto. Do you see anything other than an express train (or buses) at Inchon? What about Gatwick, it had express trains before Heathrow, but still doesn't have rapid transit.
 
Grimace said:
I don't understand the suggestion that the train would be too crowded if priced like GO. The train is to run every 15 minutes, offering more (if smaller) trains than any other line. If there is that much demand for commuter transit to the airport that is an even greater demonstration of what a waste of infrastructure this is.
Click to expand...

The issue are the people getting on and off at the other stops on the line. The Stouffville train stopped at Danforth and Scarborough stations at one point but no longer do because people going from Union to places on the line Agincourt and northward were being displaced by people going to Danforth and Scarborough and it was slowing down service for more people than it was improving. It isn't desirable to displace the people with less options with those who do have many other alternatives. I see charging the same for the UP Express causing much the same issue. People going to Bloor or Weston will move off the GO services designed with commuters in mind (no luggage racks and other space taking amenities) and onto UP Express because for the same price they get 15 minute service which is more convenient. Meanwhile people with luggage who don't really have the option of taking GO services are left behind as trains leave with people that didn't need to be there. With only a 3 car train and luggage racks taking up space, the cost of each run is significantly higher per seat than standard GO equipment. This means that at the same cost as GO the service takes a significant operational loss (far worse than the 20% of farebox expected now..

The bulk of the air rail link costs are in the $400M spur, the vehicles, and Union and Pearson stations. The rest of the project delivers corridor improvements that commuter services will take advantage of. A train that runs at 15 minute intervals round trip doesn't need 4 tracks of capacity, most of that capacity would be for GO and VIA.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top