Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

nfitz said:
Don't forget London.

Heathrow Express is about $31. $39 if you buy on board instead of in advance. ($44 if you go first class).
Or you can use the slower national rail Heathrow Connect which is about $15. Though none of those fares actually get you to Paddington to catch the train.

Even the tube isn't cheap. From central London it's $8.60 if you buy a ticket at the station. $7.80 if your using Oyster in rush-hour. Even off-peak (9:30 AM to 4 pm) using Oyster is $4.70.
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I don't know what your point is, other than "we're not London".

So Heathrow Express is about one third of the taxi fare there, which would argue for $18 on the UPE. Except that London taxi could easily take twice as long as Heathrow Express plus tube from Paddington. Hm, based on London, maybe UPE needs to drop the fare into the $10 range.
 
The sign says a train every 15 mins. with a travel time of 25 mins.

upxm29.jpg
 
nfitz said:
We have the TTC express bus from Kipling station. It's average speed is much faster than our rapid transit subway lines. It's both transit and it's rapid.
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Not as a replacement or alternative to UPE or anything, but Toronto should implement more of these express buses. Maybe charge double fares like the downtown express buses, but TTC buses from Sheppard or STC along the 401 would be pretty useful for lots of the City.

I actually think the Kipling-YYZ bus is a pretty good service, as you say faster than most of our subway lines. The only pain is that I have to travel all the way to Kipling to catch it! If downtown gets UPE and Etobicoke gets the Airport Rocket, it seems crudely equitable for North York and Scarborough to get rocket buses as well.

I guess GO does do this to an extent form Yorkmills and Yorkdale, but I think the services are pretty infrequent (30m?) and isn't well integrated into the rest of the TTC.
 
nfitz said:
Right ...
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Glad we agree.

The City needs to be ON THIS from Day One. It's not enough to pass resolutions begging Metrolinx for better service on the line. Council should be insisting on full disclosure of the books of the UPE service. When it's apparent what a waste of money and space UPE is, the City should offer to take over operating the line from Metrolinx, and to pay for the downtown infill stations itself. Let Metrolinx try to defend this boondoggle then.

And then they should drop the fare into the $3 range, IMO.

[/outrage]
 
diminutive said:
Not as a replacement or alternative to UPE or anything, but Toronto should implement more of these express buses. Maybe charge double fares like the downtown express buses, but TTC buses from Sheppard or STC along the 401 would be pretty useful for lots of the City.

I actually think the Kipling-YYZ bus is a pretty good service, as you say faster than most of our subway lines. The only pain is that I have to travel all the way to Kipling to catch it! If downtown gets UPE and Etobicoke gets the Airport Rocket, it seems crudely equitable for North York and Scarborough to get rocket buses as well.

I guess GO does do this to an extent form Yorkmills and Yorkdale, but I think the services are pretty infrequent (30m?) and isn't well integrated into the rest of the TTC.
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There is also the 300A Bloor-Danforth Blue Night bus and the 307 Eglinton West Blue Night bus that both run into Pearson Airport Terminal 1.
 
k10ery said:
I don't know what your point is, other than "we're not London".

So Heathrow Express is about one third of the taxi fare there, which would argue for $18 on the UPE. Except that London taxi could easily take twice as long as Heathrow Express plus tube from Paddington. Hm, based on London, maybe UPE needs to drop the fare into the $10 range.
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Also Gatwick has several services: in addition to the expensive Gatwick Express to Victoria, there is the cheaper First Capital Connect to East Croydon/London Bridge/Blackfriars/City Thameslink/Farringdon/St Pancras (from Gatwick to London Bridge is about the same speed as the Gatwick Express), and slower train services to Victoria and London Bridge.

However YYZ has far, far more employment in the surrounding area than any of the London airports. This would suggest that there needs to be a cheap service with many stops which serves people who work in Mississauga.
 
I agree, there should have been two different tracks. One for the commuters, and the travel time between Pearson and Union would be 40 minutes with about 7-8 stops along the way. Another "express train" for executives and business people who need to go fast which goes direct from Pearson to Union and back with no stops... under 20 minute travel time. The commuter fare is $3 each, while the express is $10+

This $20 to $30 price is insane.
 
andrewpmk said:
However YYZ has far, far more employment in the surrounding area than any of the London airports.
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Really? the numbers I can find for Heathrow say there are about 75,000 people who work inside the airport proper, and another 30,000 who work in related stuff along the perimeter roads, and another 100,000 in the local area whose employment is indirectly related to the airport. So that's 200,000 people before you even start to count unrelated businesses and offices in Hounslow, Hillington, or Spelthorne.

Similar numbers for Pearson suggest similar numbers (186,000) - http://www.torontopearson.com/en/aboutpearson/economic-impact

Why do you think there is far, far more employment around Pearson than there is around Heathrow?
 
Anyone have any indication how much a fare would cost between Union Station and Dundas West subway station or Weston GO Station?

As the trains run every 15 minutes the Dundas West stop could serve as a valuable alternative to get to Union Station for people in that part of the city instead of taking the subway and having to transfer at St. George. And obviously it would reduce traffic at St. George and on the subway lines.

I imagine it would take about 8-10 minutes to get from Dundas West subway to Union. Assuming an average wait of 7.5 minutes per Union-Pearson train it could be worth it for folks getting to Union from the western side of the Bloor line to get off and take the Union-Pearson Express at Dundas West subway instead of taking the subway the whole way.

My guess is that this line will not prove to be too popular with airport passengers given the expected fares of $20+. The trains may not be very busy and there will be pressure to lower fares for those passengers travelling locally (not to or from Pearson).

(Definitely this line should have been built as a western DRL but I'm not trying to go there)
 
mrgrieves said:
Anyone have any indication how much a fare would cost between Union Station and Dundas West subway station or Weston GO Station?

As the trains run every 15 minutes the Dundas West stop could serve as a valuable alternative to get to Union Station for people in that part of the city instead of taking the subway and having to transfer at St. George. And obviously it would reduce traffic at St. George and on the subway lines.

I imagine it would take about 8-10 minutes to get from Dundas West subway to Union. Assuming an average wait of 7.5 minutes per Union-Pearson train it could be worth it for folks getting to Union from the western side of the Bloor line to get off and take the Union-Pearson Express at Dundas West subway instead of taking the subway the whole way.

My guess is that this line will not prove to be too popular with airport passengers given the expected fares of $20+. The trains may not be very busy and there will be pressure to lower fares for those passengers travelling locally (not to or from Pearson).

(Definitely this line should have been built as a western DRL but I'm not trying to go there)
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My guess is that the fare will be the fare. I have not heard anyone talking about having different fares along the line. So boarding that train to go from X to Y (regardless of where X and Y are) will cost Z. I think that is why most of us think that the Weston community has wasted time and money with their demand that the train stop there on the way to and from the airport.....if the fare is, say, $20 who is gonna get on at Weston.

The original plan was a Union-DundasWest/Bloor-Airport run with the DW/B stop meant as the connector to the Bloor line....but I don't think I have read anywhere that the fare structure would be based on distance travelled.
 
TOareaFan said:
My guess is that the fare will be the fare. I have not heard anyone talking about having different fares along the line. So boarding that train to go from X to Y (regardless of where X and Y are) will cost Z. I think that is why most of us think that the Weston community has wasted time and money with their demand that the train stop there on the way to and from the airport.....if the fare is, say, $20 who is gonna get on at Weston.

The original plan was a Union-DundasWest/Bloor-Airport run with the DW/B stop meant as the connector to the Bloor line....but I don't think I have read anywhere that the fare structure would be based on distance travelled.
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Are there any other airport express trains in North America (or the world) which also operate base on a single fare model?

I understand the TTC operates in this fashion so maybe you could argue it sets a precedent. However its a technical limitation right now that prevents it from operating in zones, and from what I understand once Presto is implemented the TTC will likely introduce fare zones.
 
mrgrieves said:
... from what I understand once Presto is implemented the TTC will likely introduce fare zones.
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I've heard no such suggestion, and I've heard TTC staff say the opposite. It could allow them to introduce fare zones if they invest hundreds of millions in more equipment and infrastructure - but I've certainly seen nothing to say it is likely.
 
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