nfitz
Superstar
I'd think it would be faster to run the buses to the airport.
What a clusterf...
Perhaps we should call it a metrof...
Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited
What a clusterf...
Perhaps we should call it a metrof...
ShonTron
Moderator
Member Bio
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 12,546
- Reaction score
- 9,550
- Location
- Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
The last train from Pearson right now is 11:27 pm. There are still a lot of flights arriving from Western Canada, the US, and elsewhere between 10:30 and midnight, and it’s not as if the UPX station is especially quick and easy to get to, especially from T3.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Operations (flights) at Toronto Pearson International Airport are restricted between the hours of 00:30 and 06:29.
For domestic departures, they recommend two hours prior to departure and for international departing passengers, they recommend three hours prior to departure. Then there are the arrivals times, getting off the plane, going through customs, and picking up your luggage (allegedly).
UPX operations should reflect real world use to get through Pearson Airport. UPX should be running 24/7. Before 00:30 and after 06:29, the UPX trains should run every 15 minutes, and after 00:30 and before 06:29 a 30 minute headway should be acceptable.
For domestic departures, they recommend two hours prior to departure and for international departing passengers, they recommend three hours prior to departure. Then there are the arrivals times, getting off the plane, going through customs, and picking up your luggage (allegedly).
UPX operations should reflect real world use to get through Pearson Airport. UPX should be running 24/7. Before 00:30 and after 06:29, the UPX trains should run every 15 minutes, and after 00:30 and before 06:29 a 30 minute headway should be acceptable.
Last edited:
Bordercollie
Senior Member
During that time shuttle bus to Union might be possible in the 30 min train schedule.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Can someone please explain how in the F this is acceptable? And if this has changed since?
Relying on Transport Canada to provide oversight and not be able to determine if that is correct or not is insanity considering the number of passengers rely on train service in the province.
Relying on Transport Canada to provide oversight and not be able to determine if that is correct or not is insanity considering the number of passengers rely on train service in the province.
anb
Active Member
This is an issue for not only ML/UPX but most of the entire GTA as well. They need to stop thinking overnight = no ridership because that's 1000% false and is definitely needed especially in today's environment where the suburbs aren't only commuter towns anymore for Toronto and can stand on their own in terms of identity. There are a couple agencies who gets it like TTC, DRT, MiWay (kinda) and even GO themselves even if its just one bus running at least hourly at all times. The point is we definitely need more service overnight and it shouldn't be just buses but trains should also join the conversation of 24 hour service. Imagine if we get Lakeshore, Bramalea and of course UPX service 24/7 to start what it can do for the GTA alone.
afransen
Senior Member
I feel like I've landed at Pearson way after 0:30 several times. I try not to pick those flights but sometimes work itineraries are determined by others.
drum118
Superstar
First of all, why was the mother and child on the tracks in the first place to be hit by the train?? Lets beat the train and forget about the flashing lights while hoping not to get hit thinking.
The days of ppl not traveling at night are long gone that there is an needs to be some sort of service overnight regardless where it is. Quality of of service is based on the worse ridership numbers.
If your plane is arriving late at the airport after.00:30 and before 06:30, you either have to sit it out for X to take you from the airport or spend big $$ to used a cab. If your plane leaves at 7:00, you either spend the night at the airport to clear security or find away to get there by 4:00 since there is next to no transit to the airport at that time of night, other than TTC 300.
Very few places in Europe have all night rail service and usely its for the airport only on an hourly based.
Late this year or early next year, UPX will have to adjust travel time when Mount Dennis Station goes into service to maintain the old 15 minute service.
nfitz
Superstar
We can blame the victim - I don't know quite what transpired here, but it's more effective and could save more lives to ask why Metrolinx doesn't even maintain all the fences along the right-of-way.
drum118
Superstar
ML has the same issues as other RR and that is ppl cutting or pulling fencing down to cross the tracks. Not cheap or easy to do in maintaining the fencing. Then, ML hasn't live up to anything regarding the graffiti on the walls or fencing like they have stated since day one.
The only way ML and RR can deal with fences is to build walls 12' high, but the NINMBY folks will bitch at those wall as well take decades to build if there is funds to do it in the first place.
The only way someone can get hit in the rail corridor is being there illegally or disobeying the flashers and gates at crossing. If they get hit or kill is solely on that person, but it delays anyone using the systems. Most of all, it has an impact on the crew that hit someone to the point they are off up to a year or never return to that position again.
crs1026
Superstar
^The full report is on line and it’s an interesting (horrifying, actually) read. It’s a scenario where the working crossing protection was not the only stimulus that the people making the crossing were processing. One has to balance the “why did they ignore the gates” with human nature - there were other clues that the pedestrians were monitoring and processing - and with the basic design assumptions of the grade crossing. The toll could have been a lot higher. The solutions are all bandaids in the sense that you have a busy switching lead beside a main track that crosses a busy road - there will always be heightened risk there, short of grade separation.
The issue that got the headline is a bit of a sideshow but significant in its own right. Basically, while Transport Canada does safety inspections and monitoring over Metrolinx, it has no authority to order ML to fix anything that it finds. Any TC findings are effectively suggestions and (because the Province hasn’t staffed its rail safety office) nothing happens if they are ignored.
It’s not that ML doesn’t manage safety diligently, but effectively they don’t answer to anybody in the usual way that other railways in Canada do. And where CN, VIA, and ML all operate on the same tracks, they answer to different places in terms of safety. That’s not a good thing, and it generalises well beyond Lancaster - all railroads need an independent watchdog, and if the Transport Canada watchdog has no bite, the safety framework needs improving.
- Paul
The issue that got the headline is a bit of a sideshow but significant in its own right. Basically, while Transport Canada does safety inspections and monitoring over Metrolinx, it has no authority to order ML to fix anything that it finds. Any TC findings are effectively suggestions and (because the Province hasn’t staffed its rail safety office) nothing happens if they are ignored.
It’s not that ML doesn’t manage safety diligently, but effectively they don’t answer to anybody in the usual way that other railways in Canada do. And where CN, VIA, and ML all operate on the same tracks, they answer to different places in terms of safety. That’s not a good thing, and it generalises well beyond Lancaster - all railroads need an independent watchdog, and if the Transport Canada watchdog has no bite, the safety framework needs improving.
- Paul
Last edited:
Northern Light
Superstar
TY for posting that Report Link, Paul.
It adds substantively to one's understanding of the situation.
I would encourage others commenting in the thread to follow the link, the report isn't overly long or technical and it provides a fairly clear understanding of the sequence of events here.
****
While there is ample blame for creating/sustaining a situation prone to danger; ultimately, it was the choice of adult care givers of children to cross a railway crossing with lights on, and gates down, when they lacked a clear sightline of all the tracks.
I completely understand frustration at long delays crossing the tracks due to switching activity and wouldn't waste my breath telling someone not to disobey signals in that scenario if they have a very clear slightline down all the tracks in question in both directions.
That was not the case here. There need not be a pile on; its a tragic mis-step.
For the info of others......
This is a picture from streetview of the Applicable crossing, looking in the direction of Kitchener Yard:
This is the image from the report showing the relative positions of the trains and pedestrians:
In reading the report, if the yard switching activity is to remain here, I find the case for a grade separation pretty compelling. More for convenience of everyone than safety, but the latter being a consequential benefit.
Last edited:
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Then there have to be the customs personnel, cleaners, check-in clerks, security staff, luggage handlers, pilots and flight attendants, etc. who have to work at Pearson to handle the passengers arriving or departing at Pearson.
nfitz
Superstar
They do - but unlike other railroads in urban areas, they don't maintain the fencing. I've watched CP in Montreal frequently fixing the fencing that's frequently cut between Vendome and Montreal West stations.
At the same time, near why I live, along the Lakeshore East line, they've done little to repair holes in the fence at well known crossing points. One occasion I walked along the fence, it was quite evident that some sections hadn't been fixed in decades - likely since Metrolinx obtained the track. The path to the "crossing" is well worn, and easily visible from the track. I stood at that fence once, and watched an adult accompanying a small child across the three live tracks.
Perhaps it's me, but in many locations fixing the fencing more than once every few decades might pursuade some not to cross., but the NINMBY folks will bitch at those wall as well take decades to build if there is funds to do it in the first place.
What an abhorrent view! That's the kind of attitude that gets people killed. Did you read that report - the blame got spread around. The new crossing gates and LED warnings of there being 2 trains will likely eliminate any further incidents at that location in Kitchener - why it didn't happen after the almost identical fatality 6 years earlier I don't know.
nfitz
Superstar
So only 4 of the 18 cars are in service. And they might be at risk as well.
I do wonder though how this is not as simple as simply replacing the brake discs.
Most UP Express train cars 'condemned' after thermal cracks found in brake discs: union
Most of the fleet servicing the UP Express has been removed from operation after thermal cracks were discovered in the vehicle brake discs, according to the maintenance and operators’ union and confirmed by several sources, leaving Metrolinx with only four train cars in service for the rail link...