Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[allabootmatt]

I like UP and want it to succeed. I really do. But not sure I can take it again. Arrived at Union today with 2.5 hours to go until a 1030am flight to the US.

There was a slight delay leaving Union, but no big deal. Train rolling at 0820 or so.

Then, at Weston, disaster. A 'mechanical problem.' Staff saying we'd be delayed 'just a few moments.' Then 'we're not sure how long but not long, and we know you all have flights to catch.' Then 'it'll be 20 minutes.' Then, finally, 'we don't know when, there's a problem with the brakes.' At that point I called an Uber, and arrived at the airport much too late for my flight as US departures close 60 minutes before.

Thankfully it and my connection were re-booked, at the cost only of spending half the day sitting in Pearson. UPX staff were nice I guess, but there was no formal offer of compensation or suggestions of an alternative route to the airport. As a tourist you would have been very confused. Had I needed to buy an entirely new itinerary, as did a woman who I saw at the airport later on who was also on our train, I would be spitting with rage.

I've literally never missed a flight in my life until today, despite frequent travel all over. I have UPX to thank for breaking that streak.

Like I said, I really, really want UP to succeed. But how can I go back to it now? Not sure.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I've literally never missed a flight in my life until today, despite frequent travel all over. I have UPX to thank for breaking that streak.

Like I said, I really, really want UP to succeed. But how can I go back to it now? Not sure.

That's pretty awful - considering the time critical nature of the ridership, you'd think that they have contingency plans that can do better than delay-delay-delay-oops?

AoD

 

[LNahid2000]

I love how some people in this thread who argue that taking the TTC will cause missed flights because it is unreliable fail to realize that the UP Express can be unreliable too.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I love how some people in this thread who argue that taking the TTC will cause missed flights because it is unreliable fail to realize that the UP Express can be unreliable too.

I think the likelihood of getting delayed on the TTC, which is not really a service designed with time-sensitive flights in mind makes it more forgivable than UPX when it happens. Like - it's an airport line right from the start, it is time sensitive - delays in informing passengers and enabling alternative arrangements is pretty unacceptable.

AoD

 

[mdrejhon]

I like UP and want it to succeed. I really do. But not sure I can take it again. Arrived at Union today with 2.5 hours to go until a 1030am flight to the US.

What's TTC's historical response for a problem with the 192 Airport Rocket?
They've been around longer, and they probably have experience in these matters. Anyone know?
This is obviously disappointing; a contingency plan is needed.

Like, immediately free UPX vochers (I recommend handing out 2 free tickets for every 15-min-and-longer delay). Free vouchers should be in pocket of all UPX attendants or at the Pearson stop. While the revenue loss is not appealing, bad publicity costs WAY MORE -- as Metrolinx has painfully been learning under pressure from above. I like many of the good Metrolinx initiatives but I must admit to being disappointed in UPX not having been handled better on average.

Since it exists now it needs to succeed, and has to succeed (at a lower fare) even if it has to be eventually converted/expanded to also serve as low fare public transit during electrification. Metrolinx needs to figure out how.

 

[Napoleon]

I think the likelihood of getting delayed on the TTC, which is not really a service designed with time-sensitive flights in mind makes it more forgivable than UPX when it happens. Like - it's an airport line right from the start, it is time sensitive - delays in informing passengers and enabling alternative arrangements is pretty unacceptable.

AoD

As a frequent traveler, I've had a couple close calls getting to the airport on public transit:

• TTC once when there was an accident on the freeway between Kipling and the airport. Thankfully staff bent the cut-off for check in for me.
• Heathrow: I took the subway all the way to the airport (as opposed to the very expensive airport train). The signaling system completely failed, and we were stuck between stations for almost an hour. I finally grabbed a very expensive cab to the airport.
• BART in SF: mechanical failure took a train out of service and blocked the path of other trains. Ended up in a taxi wth other passengers.

Even leaving huge buffers, this kind of thing happens sometimes. It's frustrating but transit systems will fail. Going by car might have even more problems as accidents can completely shut down a highway. It took over 2 hours once to get to the Delhi airport in a taxi. The best UPX can do is have a plan in place for getting riders off at a station. Taxi vouchers are nice if they happen.

 

[dowlingm]

I think the likelihood of getting delayed on the TTC, which is not really a service designed with time-sensitive flights in mind makes it more forgivable than UPX when it happens. Like - it's an airport line right from the start, it is time sensitive - delays in informing passengers and enabling alternative arrangements is pretty unacceptable.

AoD

The thing is, if Metrolinx integrate UPX into GO and charge accordingly, or even TTC fare as some demand, where's the incentive to differentiate the service? It's like how "elite service" is used to tag UPX as frivolous because mediocre and cheap is all we dare aspire to.

There is also the question of whether, if we accept that service needs to be a cut above for airport/airline passengers including contingencies for disruptions... shouldn't GTAA and the airlines be covering some of the cost of that premium offering? They are, after all, the beneficiaries.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The thing is, if Metrolinx integrate UPX into GO and charge accordingly, or even TTC fare as some demand, where's the incentive to differentiate the service? It's like how "elite service" is used to tag UPX as frivolous because mediocre and cheap is all we dare aspire to.

There is also the question of whether, if we accept that service needs to be a cut above for airport/airline passengers including contingencies for disruptions... shouldn't GTAA and the airlines be covering some of the cost of that premium offering? They are, after all, the beneficiaries.

My take is running it like standard GO (and gawd forbid if TTCriders have their way, at TTC fare) doesn't make that much sense . They are running a specialized service, let's not hide that reality - the pricing should be designed to maximize utility to that group of potential riders, not Joe Blow. If some of said group wanted to use that service, by all means, but the service should not be mediocre.

As to subsidies - the Feds should take this one up, considering the airport rents they're collecting.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

The thing is, if Metrolinx integrate UPX into GO and charge accordingly, or even TTC fare as some demand...

TTC fares? This is an express service from downtown. The TTC fare for downtown express services is currently $6.50 cash, or $5.80 with tokens.

I agree - the UPX fares to Weston and Bloor are too cheap - and they should be increased to TTC fares.

 

[rbt]

Then, at Weston, disaster. A 'mechanical problem.' Staff saying we'd be delayed 'just a few moments.' Then 'we're not sure how long but not long, and we know you all have flights to catch.' Then 'it'll be 20 minutes.' Then, finally, 'we don't know when, there's a problem with the brakes.'

How could it possibly have been more than 15 minutes? Based on you getting out and taking Uber I assume you were at the station itself.

Within 15 minutes the following train should have come along and picked you up from a different platform. There's no shortage of track time (even during AM Peak) in that corridor.

That's a really disturbing story actually.

 

[SFO-YYZ]

What's TTC's historical response for a problem with the 192 Airport Rocket?
They've been around longer, and they probably have experience in these matters. Anyone know?
This is obviously disappointing; a contingency plan is needed.

Like, immediately free UPX vochers (I recommend handing out 2 free tickets for every 15-min-and-longer delay). Free vouchers should be in pocket of all UPX attendants or at the Pearson stop. While the revenue loss is not appealing, bad publicity costs WAY MORE -- as Metrolinx has painfully been learning under pressure from above. I like many of the good Metrolinx initiatives but I must admit to being disappointed in UPX not having been handled better on average.

Since it exists now it needs to succeed, and has to succeed (at a lower fare) even if it has to be eventually converted/expanded to also serve as low fare public transit during electrification. Metrolinx needs to figure out how.

Since the fare reduction announcement, my understanding is that they have already been handing out free one-way vouchers to all UPX passeners paying the higher fares. I got one on my way to Pearson last Friday morning from the train attendant, and another one earlier this week. The said poster who encountered 20 min delays should have gotten one as well, whether or not the train was delayed.

 

[SFO-YYZ]

I love how some people in this thread who argue that taking the TTC will cause missed flights because it is unreliable fail to realize that the UP Express can be unreliable too.

Of course everyone is aware that UPX can be unreliable as well. Flights can be delayed, trains can be delayed, cars can be delayed, TTC and mass transit can be (chronically) delayed. I don't think anyone on here "failed to realize" that simple fact.

 

[allabootmatt]

How could it possibly have been more than 15 minutes? Based on you getting out and taking Uber I assume you were at the station itself.

Within 15 minutes the following train should have come along and picked you up from a different platform. There's no shortage of track time (even during AM Peak) in that corridor.

That's a really disturbing story actually.

I asked the same! And we were told that the disabled train was blocking all UP trains on the line and no switch was possible until our train got moving.

 

[crs1026]

I asked the same! And we were told that the disabled train was blocking all UP trains on the line and no switch was possible until our train got moving.

Since that's patently absurd - the Nickle interlocking is a mile south of Weston station, and it's unlikely that the next train would have been lined past that point - I'm going to assume the problem was something more complicated than what was stated.

- Paul

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

I find the corporate branding at the UPX station to be a little overbearing. "The CIBC UPstairs lounge" doesn't exactly exude warm and friendly.

Has anyone been inside? It seems like a natural spot for transit riders before a ball game.

Had a quiet Cubano & Mill street pint lunch there once. Quiet, wifi, sandwich was fine.