Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

I just looked at the Heathrow Express web site for an upcoming trip. A return ticket for the 15-minute shuttle to Paddington Station will cost me 35 pounds.

The difference is, Heathrow also has a good old-fashioned Tube connection that will get me where I need to go much cheaper, albeit a lot slower.

UPX is a great step forward for the city. If we can soak the tourist in the process, great.

The annoyance is its pre-eminence over better transit for the people who live here and need to ride every day.

- Paul
 
Tokyo -- 3000 yen for express train, about CAD $30
Hong Kong -- HK $100, about CAD $16
London -- 35 pounds for express train, about CAD $65

There are other slower public transit routes (London Underground, Tokyo Narita non-express), and we also have a cheaper option too; the Airport 192 Rocket. Clearly, Toronto has joined the ranks of world cities with a speedy airport train at rates competitive to other world cities. Surprised how expensive London's express airport train has become. But all of the above express airport trains are all profitable. I expect Toronto to be the same; in fact there's not even a subway or LRT alternative, so that should amplify UPX popularity potentially a bit more than expected, considering its lower cost compared to Tokyo/London at $19 Presto (and cards will be available to tourists at airport!).

crs1026 said:
The annoyance is its pre-eminence over better transit for the people who live here and need to ride every day.
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No kidding...
 
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crs1026 said:
I just looked at the Heathrow Express web site for an upcoming trip. A return ticket for the 15-minute shuttle to Paddington Station will cost me 35 pounds.

The difference is, Heathrow also has a good old-fashioned Tube connection that will get me where I need to go much cheaper, albeit a lot slower.
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and we have a shuttle to the tube that will get you where you need to go much cheaper....albeit a lot slower.

we also have a GO bus system that will get you some places from the airport cheaper than UPe but more than TTC.

like London, we have options....not identical in nature but options. But if we are going to go with our version of the more expensive option should not have been built until the good old fashioned Tube/Subway went to the airport, we would end up with neither.....no?
 
mdrejhon said:
Tokyo -- 3000 yen for express train, about CAD $30
Hong Kong -- HK $100, about CAD $16
London -- 35 pounds for express train, about CAD $65

There are other slower public transit routes (London Underground, Tokyo Narita non-express), and we also have a cheaper option too; the Airport 192 Rocket. Clearly, Toronto has joined the ranks of world cities with a speedy airport train at rates competitive to other world cities. Surprised how expensive London's express airport train has become. But all of the above express airport trains are all profitable. I expect Toronto to be the same; in fact there's not even a subway or LRT alternative, so that should amplify UPX popularity potentially a bit more than expected, considering its lower cost compared to Tokyo/London at $19 Presto (and cards will be available to tourists at airport!).


No kidding...
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Kind of a pick and choose comparison. Amsterdam's airport train costs 5 Euros (~$7). Vienna's airport train costs 4 Euros (~$6). Vienna's train ticket actually allows you to use the entire public transit system with the ticket to get to your final destination.
 
BMO said:
Kind of a pick and choose comparison. Amsterdam's airport train costs 5 Euros (~$7). Vienna's airport train costs 4 Euros (~$6). Vienna's train ticket actually allows you to use the entire public transit system with the ticket to get to your final destination.
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Yes, intentionally a pick and choose comparision.

But it still proves the point that UPX isn't likely to go bankrupt or be discontinued: We're going to be "stuck" with a successful premium-priced luxury UPX system operating in an alpha-league World City. Recent World City rankings have raised Toronto's World City profile, and the city should certainly able to sustain an (alas) premium-priced train. Even more profoundly when there are no other rail alternatives than UPX at the moment, so that will in itself amplify UPX demand. I'd prefer if it was cheaper, but...
 
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BMO said:
Kind of a pick and choose comparison. Amsterdam's airport train costs 5 Euros (~$7). Vienna's airport train costs 4 Euros (~$6). Vienna's train ticket actually allows you to use the entire public transit system with the ticket to get to your final destination.
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An how often do you incur this cost? Let's say UPX costs $7 instead of $19.. yay you save $12 maybe 4 times a year, $48 dollars a year over two plane trips.

I'm just saying..
 
Simple napkin math on UPX economics...

$19 -- trains full 1/3 of the time, train half-full 1/3 of the time, train empty 1/3 of time
= Average $9.50 per seat all day long

$10 -- trains full 2/3 of the time, train half-full 1/3 of the time, some upset customers who can't squeeze onto full train
= Average $8.3 per seat all day long

$3 -- trains full all the time, lots of upset customers who couldn't squeeze onto full train
= Average $3 per seat all day long

Did not factor in pricing of standee spots, but it would play out similarly in an apples-to-apples comparision given the same amount of standee floor surface area. Play/fudge the numbers around, but I think they hit a pricing sweet spot, in order to maximize farebox recovery of a captive audience (airport!) that mostly have worse options to downtown, and to minimize customers who get frustrated they can't make it onto a full UPX train.

It should easily pay for its operating farebox, and then some, even at only 50% utilization. The train is probably not lossmaking until down to below one-third utilization (allday average, including slow periods + peak periods).
 
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crs1026 said:
I just looked at the Heathrow Express web site for an upcoming trip. A return ticket for the 15-minute shuttle to Paddington Station will cost me 35 pounds.
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Surely the high-speed 15-minute non-stop Heathrow Express isn't comparable to the Toronto. Wouldn't the correct analogue be the 25-minute Heathrow Connect service that makes some stops (like the 25-minute Pearson train) which only costs £10.10 - which is CAN$18.50 - about the same price as Union Pearson's $19 fare.
 
For those talking about how UPX would allow travellers to spend long periods of time in Toronto without going outside... well... PATH is a labyrinth and can be very hard to navigate if you're not familiar with it.
 
1overcosc said:
For those talking about how UPX would allow travellers to spend long periods of time in Toronto without going outside... well... PATH is a labyrinth and can be very hard to navigate if you're not familiar with it.
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This is extremely true. I don't use PATH often, but when I try to I remember why I usually avoid it. There are no maps to be found!
 
GO Service Changes Starting May 4

We’re adjusting the times of some of our train trips to coordinate schedules with the new UP Express service launching this spring, which will connect Union Station to Toronto Pearson in 25 minutes, every 15 minutes.
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Interesting, but that said, I doubt the UPX service will be ready in 2 weeks.
 
Here is a bit of irony for y'all.

One of the ways this province is paying for transit improvements is squeezing more money from beer sales.....one of the revenue tools for this service is their retail partners at the union lounge....one of those partners is Mill Street brewery.....but this is still Ontario and while you can buy a beer in this lounge at Union you better drink it during the gap between trains (15 minutes so lets say the average customer wait time is 7.5 minutes) because they will not be serving on the train itself and, to make it worse, any beer bought in the lounge has to be finished in the lounge and cannot be carried onto the train.
 
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