Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

yea, 6 car trains would be roughly double the length of The 3 car UPX trains. The spur can be used by the UPX and only the UPX.

GO will probably build its "terminal 2" anyway for HSR and a LINK train extension to it directly on the corridor anyway, and that will provide the "cheap" airport connection you pay $5 instead of $20 (or whatever it will be), but you get a nice long LINK train ride with it. likely a decade away though.
 
Or, TTC & province could step up with the phase II of the Eglinton Crosstown west from Mount Dennis to the airport, charging TTC fare obviously. A fast expensive ride or a slower, but still not unpleasant, cheaper, more local ride.
 
Uh, the distances between train platform and air terminal in YYZ and YVR seem pretty damn similar. YYZ throws in an escalator but it's fully indoors while YVR's walkway is open to the outside air with a cover, and I guess we'll have wait until they're both operating to do a comparison test.
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Both transfers are very good. I'm very impressed how the connection to T3 will work at Pearson. The only concern I have is elevator space and the congestion during shift change (staff using the same infrastructure to get to their parking lot). Vancouver's arrivals are spread out so there is a longer walk to some gates on the international side than I was expecting once you get in the terminal. (I had to walk from the domestic baggage to the Fairmont at night and then the Fairmont to the Canada Line in the AM.

This is of course seeing things through rose-coloured glasses. I was at EDI and that has the worst transfer to the LRT that you could imagine. To get from baggage claim you first walk by all the taxi's, then the busses and then you finally reach the LRT. And the worse part about it is the bus is cheaper, more convenient and faster (even in rush hour)!
 
Yes. I thought the conflicting complaints in point form would have made it clear.

the noise and fume emission profiles of the UPX killer diesels must have killed at least 1,000 by now. Stupid election impeding The Truth Getting Out.

Congrats, guys. Trolling on UT. On a subject that gets people riled up easily. Stellar.

Or, TTC & province could step up with the phase II of the Eglinton Crosstown west from Mount Dennis to the airport, charging TTC fare obviously. A fast expensive ride or a slower, but still not unpleasant, cheaper, more local ride.

This is the argument I have made all along. If you want cheap, local stop transit to the airport, you need to make calls for this to be done, not completely changing the purpose of the UPX. I would even argue it needs to go a bit further and connect to Malton GO. That will decimate any need to have a fairy-tale HSR alignment that cuts through the airport, as it provides a (relatively) cheap connection for those travelling to/from KW, Guelph or London.
 
The real tragedy here is that UPX could have been Toronto's first S-bahn type rail service, if it only had accepted TTC fares for travel inside Toronto, and charged a premium for boarding/exiting at the airport.
No, it couldn't have. Not with the budget and timelines that were available in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011...

A door-to-door Union-to-Pearson S-bahn would have needed far more capacity in order to accomodate the non-airport traffic. That means either longer trains (ruling out the relatively inexpensive station that was dropped in at Pearson and instead forcing them to do something bigger and probably underground) or much shorter headways (making the corridor works way more complicated and pricey).

On that latter point, we've been over this a few times in this thread with various doodles, but without coupling it to a transformation of mainline railway train control (ie cab signalling and PTC) to allow the Euro-style headways that we're still not sure if GO RER will be able to pull off in 2020, probably the only way that could have been done in 200x was by turning two tracks into a completely isolated non-Transport Canada-spec rapid transit line and permanently hobbling all the 905 GO services and Via (and HSR?) services by confining them along with freight to a remaining tight stretch of land that might be a real squeeze to upgrade even to double track. There'd also need to be a totally new and expensive downtown terminal separate from the existing Union Station corridor.

As more stops were added to the line, travel time would rise and that "get to me to the airport, the 192 doesn’t cut it" ridership segment switches back to cabs and drop-offs and the like. When combined with longer/more frequent trains that would probably leave a heck of a lot of empty seats for the last leg of the line into the airport on some potentially overbuilt infrastructure.

Finally, where the heck would the operating subsidies required to run at a TTC fare have come from?

This was a real missed opportunity, but can still be done if the political will is ever there, or the residents along the line begin demanding it. How will it feel when residents realize they have a frequent train service running through their backyard that they can't afford to use, and have to be satisfied with shitty bus services that really make reaching downtown a mission.
There is political will to run RER service on this corridor. We don’t know if it would stop 4 times or 8 times or whether there would be a single evolved-from-GO service or whether there’d be a variety of different trains on the line, like a Toronto-local train and a 905-oriented more traditional GO train.

But my gut feeling is that the right approach is to keep the airport train fast and direct and price it higher, and then handle the commuter and everyday trip market with services that are cheaper and keep going past the spur junction to serve Brampton. People heading to the airport willing to trade a bit of time for a cheaper price could take the regular train most of the way there and then transfer to a bus, an APM extension, or potential Finch LRT extension.

Finally, there is a pretty good alternative to shitty bus services to downtown already in Weston… a large green train that already runs at rush hour and sounds like it’s going to offer some kind of two-way service in the near future. That it’s not fare integrated with the bus or that it costs more than the equivalent TTC journey is a separate problem, and one that a hypothetical Union-Pearson S-bahn also would face.

I expect a major uproar from the community once the line enters service.
I think we’ve all already seen plenty of that uproar.
 
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yea, 6 car trains would be roughly double the length of The 3 car UPX trains. The spur can be used by the UPX and only the UPX.

GO will probably build its "terminal 2" anyway for HSR and a LINK train extension to it directly on the corridor anyway, and that will provide the "cheap" airport connection you pay $5 instead of $20 (or whatever it will be), but you get a nice long LINK train ride with it. likely a decade away though.

Honestly, I think that's the best solution anyway. HSR & GO REX station at Malton Station (could be renamed Pearson Terminal 2 for simplicity sake), TTC and MiWay at Renforth Gateway, with a LINK train running in between it. However, the LINK train may need to be upgraded to ICTS or something like that, because I don't think the current technology would support a line of that length.

Even so, such a configuration would be significantly less expensive than building a new Terminal 2 AT Pearson, requiring connecting tunnels on either side.

This also keeps the UPX service intact. GO REX and HSR use Terminal 2, while UPX has direct access to Terminal 1. In essence, people would be paying extra to avoid going through Terminal 2 and using the LINK. I think that's a pretty reasonable compromise, and is still a very decent transport option for those choosing to not pay the premium fare.
 
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Yes. I thought the conflicting complaints in point form would have made it clear.

the noise and fume emission profiles of the UPX killer diesels must have killed at least 1,000 by now. Stupid election impeding The Truth Getting Out.

Congrats, guys. Trolling on UT. On a subject that gets people riled up easily. Stellar.

I do not consider either of those posts to have been trolling. They were clearly satire designed to confront readers with the ridiculousness of NIMBYism and circular criticisms that the project has faced. Most readers got that. Both EnviroTO and dowlingm have demonstrated over time that there is intelligence behind their posts, and if some readers don't take that into consideration then it's their own loss.

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Lol ... and the new farecard system isn't years behind schedule, millions over budget, and doesn't take too long to process each transaction.

The problems with the farecard and transaction time are only on the buses (i.e with the wireless radio system / GPS - however the link is made (could be complicated by geography, the same way cell phone service cuts in and out)) - not on SkyTrain or Canada Line which would be hard-wired.
 
The problems with the farecard and transaction time are only on the buses (i.e with the wireless radio system / GPS - however the link is made (could be complicated by geography, the same way cell phone service cuts in and out)) - not on SkyTrain or Canada Line which would be hard-wired.
Yes, that's what I read. Though I hadn't realised it was because they were trying to uplink the transaction in realtime! Oh my, given that TransLink has more than twice the number of bus riders than Skytrain riders, this is a huge problem, potentially effecting about 2/3 of their transactions!
 
You can't compare UPX to Heathrow Express or any equivalent service because those cities already have rapid transit to their airport..........in other words there is a choice.

There is only ONE comparison to the UPX in the Western world and that is the Denver East Rail Link and by every single metric available, the UPX is a vastly inferior service and one that is going to be several times more expensive.

The only good thing about the UPX will be the fact that it will be discontinued after 2016, at least in it's current form. There is no way in hell Queen's Park will {or should} spend a fortune electrifying a line that people detest and moves an incredibly paltry maximum of 6,000 passengers a day..........not even a decent bus route.
 
The only good thing about the UPX will be the fact that it will be discontinued after 2016, at least in it's current form. There is no way in hell Queen's Park will {or should} spend a fortune electrifying a line that people detest and moves an incredibly paltry maximum of 6,000 passengers a day..........not even a decent bus route.

Ummm, the Georgetown corridor as a whole is being electrified, not just the UPX tracks. The primary reason (and justification) for the electrification is for GO service, with the electrification of the UPX being a secondary benefit. You make it sound as if the Province is going to pump hundreds of millions into the electrification of the corridor to only benefit UPX riders, and that's simply not the case.
 
So all the money spend on a line that will be discontinued. What form will the new line take? Part of the Smart-track?
 
So all the money spend on a line that will be discontinued. What form will the new line take? Part of the Smart-track?

Line will not be discontinued. Not sure why you've deduced that outcome from the comments above.
The bulk of the costs were for the ROW and tracks... the TYPE of service can change over time to meet the needs of the travellers.

I still think UPX will be successful and that GO will eventually run shuttles from Malton to Pearson. However, would love to see the LINK replaced with a LRT/Monorail/etc. that runs from Malton GO --> Long Term Parking Lot --> T3 --> T1a --> T1b --> Renforth Gateway.
 

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