Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

I'm very curious to see how this rail spur clears the 401 to T1 departures ramp and the people-mover's east track without looking like a roller coaster.

Yes, thanks for the pictures drum118. Interesting look at how little lateral support is on those beams prior to the deck being installed. Also nice to see they are making a gradual shift to the new bridge that should allow trains to pass through without further reduction in speed.
 
EnviroTO said:
I'm very curious to see how this rail spur clears the 401 to T1 departures ramp and the people-mover's east track without looking like a roller coaster.

Yes, thanks for the pictures drum118. Interesting look at how little lateral support is on those beams prior to the deck being installed.
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Thirding the kudos for drum118. Great shots.

Enviro, I'm assuming you mean the NB-427-to-T1 ramp... to my untrained, Google-street-view-checking eye, that certainly seems to be the tallest hurdle they need to jump on the approach in to the airport. Assuming they didn't want to stick the guideway up any higher than they absolutely had to, I imagine they must have started there and worked backwards when they designed out the grades.

It's a little hard to tell because of the potential wide-angle lens distortion in drum's great panoramic shot, but it almost looks as it the gradient of the climb of the guideway is preparing to level off a pillar or two after where the girders have stopped for now.

Once they're over the highway ramp, I'm kind of curious to see how much altitude they plan to shed before passing over the east people-mover track, and then how much remaining height they'll have to drop to get down to the station. We'd heard part of Metrolinx redesign was a shaving-down of the grades a bit, but unsure what's the best you can hope for given those constraints.
 
EnviroTO said:
I'm very curious to see how this rail spur clears the 401 to T1 departures ramp and the people-mover's east track without looking like a roller coaster.

Yes, thanks for the pictures drum118. Interesting look at how little lateral support is on those beams prior to the deck being installed. Also nice to see they are making a gradual shift to the new bridge that should allow trains to pass through without further reduction in speed.
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They adjusted the original path of the rail link further east since a new roadway was built along its original path. The highest point previously looked to be about 23m since the NB-427-to-T1 ramp was lower at that point but now the elevated guide way will need to reach a height of 28m to clear the ramp;

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original image courtesy of GO/metrolinx (the blue line is an estimate on my part about its new route)

It might look like a roller-coaster but it won't be much of one as the maximum grade is only 3%.
Leviathan's 80 degree slop is safe from this challenger. :p


officedweller said:
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/19611789@N00
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That degree of curvature will mean a very slow speed turn and I can't imagine them running at any high rate of speed on the elevated portion itself, 30mph tops would be my guess. Also the line is dead ended so one can expect an Oshawa like speed decrease coming into the platform. Which basically means that everyone will get to enjoy the view for a little longer.
 
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drum118 said:
March 15
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Wow. I wasn't closely following this project and was unaware of the scale of the infrastructure for this project. Hard to believe that's being built here in T.O. It's also surprising (and disappointing in an odd way) that that elevated structure is for conventional railroad tracks. You'd think that was for an elevated subway line or something.
 
any guess how much the ride will cost? I will be very reluctant to pay if it exceeds $20.
 
In the first year it will likely be between $20 and $25. The current Airport Express bus is in that range and the taxis and limos are double that. I may come down if ridership is low.
 
EnviroTO said:
In the first year it will likely be between $20 and $25. The current Airport Express bus is in that range and the taxis and limos are double that. I may come down if ridership is low.
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last time I was about to take the Express Bus, but when I saw two girls trying to do the same thing, I convince them to share a cab with me to downtown for less than $20 each, instead of paying almost $30 for the bus. Not everyone is willing to do that but remember taxis and limos are for up to 4 people. The train ticket is for one. So for anyone travelling with at least one other person, taking a taxi that picks you up at your doorstep makes a lot more sense than dragging your luggage to Union, buy a train ticket, wait for the train and then board when the departure time arrives.

So if the train is priced at $20-25, it basically will only attract people traveling alone with easy access to union/bloor west station, and with light luggage. Wonder how big a market that is. Corporations and government usually reimburse taxi fare to the airport so don't count business travellers either. People in North York and Etobicoke obviously won't take this train since it is a waste of time. That pretty much leaves downtown residents and those who live in other small nearby cities/burbs who need to use Pearson.
 
The Airport Express bus does have the advantage of stopping at the door of most of the major downtown hotels. But I'd never want to ride it - the windows are always covered in wrapped ads (I'm somewhat uncomfortable being in a motor vehicle if I don't see forward movement, though I am fine driving or sitting next to a window), I've heard they play ads on the monitors inside, and the fare is expensive enough.

If $20-25 represents a single one-way fare, that's okay. There needs, though, to be reasonable fares for commuters (airport employees and air crews, for example). Many models discount the published one-way fare to transit pass holders - if there was a substantial discount for PRESTO card holders, say down to $10 or even $15 with a free tap on or off the subway, I'd enthusiastically use it on the rare occasion that I have to go from downtown to Pearson. It's a real shame though that there won't be a few more stops on the route to be a real transit option for the northwest.
 
bleu said:
Corporations and government usually reimburse taxi fare to the airport so don't count business travellers either.
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I have no idea how successful it will be but to simply discount business travellers like that is a bit heavy handed. Firstly, even though we do get reimbursed for our expenses, we are (at every company I know) encouraged to weigh/balance cost versus efficiency/comfort. So, for example, on my 6 - 8 trips to Montreal a year, it has been a long time (well over a year) since I have expensed return cab fare to/from the airport (+/- $90) as opposed to the $18 the "747"/metro combo I now use. The speed/efficiency is very similar, it reduces my in town expenditures to (as it becomes a metro pass for my stay) and it saves the company about $72 per trip.

So, will business travellers to Toronto start using the train? I suspect so...particularly if they are staying at one of the many hotels located very conveniently to Union Station. Not only will the train cost less, the travel time will be far more predictable than a cab....which is a very important feature.
 
TOareaFan said:
Not only will the train cost less, the travel time will be far more predictable than a cab....which is a very important feature.
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agreed. Train is not about saving lots of $$$. It's about reliability and predictability. I've done Airport-Union route dozens of times. Without any traffic, it takes just under 25 minutes. Any kind of traffic, usually increases travel time significantly (to well over 1 hour). I believe Airlink is promising 25 min travel time....no matter of the traffic on Gardner/427. That's a huge bonus that you cant discount.
 
The air rail link is completely useless for anyone who works in the many office parks surrounding the airport, because it is too expensive. Not designing the line to accommodate 12-car GO trains with lower fares is a mistake.
 
andrewpmk said:
The air rail link is completely useless for anyone who works in the many office parks surrounding the airport, because it is too expensive. Not designing the line to accommodate 12-car GO trains with lower fares is a mistake.
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The "office parks surrounding the airport" are nowhere near Terminal 1. You could spend a couple hundred million more to engineer a solution that gets 12 car trains to the terminal if you'd like, but 10 of those cars would be empty.
 
andrewpmk said:
The air rail link is completely useless for anyone who works in the many office parks surrounding the airport, because it is too expensive. Not designing the line to accommodate 12-car GO trains with lower fares is a mistake.
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I wonder if the GTAA can get some of that new infrastructure money to extend their people mover to Malton in the North and the busway in the south....then you have a public transit connection (from a variety of directions/locations) for a lot less than you would have to pay to get huge GO trains in and out of the terminal.
 
The "office parks surrounding the airport" are nowhere near Terminal 1. You could spend a couple hundred million more to engineer a solution that gets 12 car trains to the terminal if you'd like, but 10 of those cars would be empty.
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Or you could have a bus from the terminal station for commuters.

Perhaps I will be mistaken but I'm concerned about this being under-used and think this have been more of a commuter line as well as airport express.

Travel times to the airport are often overstated. I have never had it take over an hour to get there from downtown. Usually 30 minutes; if rush hour, 45 minutes.

Last week had two guys from the US at the office with flights just after 6pm flying to the US. Left the office in rush hour, just after 4pm. They were at airport before 5. If they had left at the same time, walked with their bags to where the ARL station is going to be (10 minutes) and waited for the ARL to come, with a 25 minute travel time, they would have arrived about the same time with more inconvenience, likely for the about the same cost (as there were 2 of them). And these guys are the prime demo.
 
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