Toronto TCHC Block 32 Development | ?m | 41s | TCHC | KPMB

Peepers said:
$1,700 isn't a subsidized rate. This is Market rate. The subsidized rate "RGI" could be just a fraction of this amount!
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$1700 is a market rate for a 5-bedroom apartment in downtown Toronto by lakeshore... right... Tell that to the thousands of people renting condos nearby for several TIMES that price. For instance, for a small (~500sqft) ONE-bedroom unit in nearby City Place buildings is going for easily for $1600 these days. Two-bedroom (~800sqft) is going well over $2200/month. I don't think they even have anything greater than 3-bedrooms outside of rare exclusive units... Unbelievable.
 
You are equating selling price to construction price - which is what the financing plan for the project is based on.

You can't subsidize RGI units when you are renting out "market" units at rents far lower than true market rents. The only way you could subsidize the RGI units would be if you rented the "market" units for far higher than true market rents but of course you would have trouble renting these units.
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Again, as long as the rent you are charging covers the financing cost of building the unit plus a certain margin for maintenance and "profit", it will be sufficient for that unit to generate income that will subsidize the RGI component. Whether that rent is anywhere near "market rent" for a unit of similar size in a private building has nothing to do with the economics. Now you can argue that the rent is artificially low, sure, but the question is just how much can you charge, knowing that a client who can afford a higher rent aren't necessarily inclined to live in a mixed income building either.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
You are equating selling price to construction price - which is what the financing plan for the project is based on.
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Yes you are correct that there is a difference between selling prices and construction costs but remember TCHC isn't in the construction business. They have to contract with a general contractor who has to make a profit even if TCHC doesn't. The spread in monthly costs is just so large that I cannot imagine TCHC breaking-even on these units much less subsidizing the RGI units in this complex. Admittedly I am not an expert in the development industry so perhaps some of the experts on here could weigh in.
 
Yes you are correct that there is a difference between selling prices and construction costs but remember TCHC isn't in the construction business. They have to contract with a general contractor who has to make a profit even if TCHC doesn't. The spread in monthly costs is just so large that I cannot imagine TCHC breaking-even on these units much less subsidizing the RGI units in this complex. Admittedly I am not an expert in the development industry so perhaps some of the experts on here could weigh in.
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Unless you have access to the financial plans, your assertion that market rent units in general are subsidized is a belief ("I cannot imagine"), not a reality. Presentation of that assertion as fact is not doing anyone any service - least of all those whom you claims to stand for.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Unless you have access to the financial plans, your assertion that market rent units in general are subsidized is a belief ("I cannot imagine"), not a reality. Presentation of that assertion as fact is not doing anyone any service - least of all those whom you claims to stand for.

AoD
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I acknowledged that I am not a real-estate industry expert which is why I would welcome some of the experts that we have on here to weigh in with their expertise and to tell us if by charging $1,700 a month for a brand new 2500 sq/ft is TCHC making money?
 
You acknowledged nothing until you're put to the task, just saying. Now if we can get back into discussion this project instead of this sideshow...

AoD
 
because the units are furnished to a bare minimum. basic stove, basic fridge, basic kitchen, basic bathroom, basic doors, etc. the rooms are big, but cheap. I'm sure the market rate stuff is still a bit low though.

I wouldn't be surprised if the basic furnishing drops $3-400 off a 5 bed unit, but $2,100 still seems cheap for a unit that large.
 
We toured this project while it was under construction, took photos, and ran a story on the front page. Searching for it would turn it up. The units were not finished at the time.

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Peepers said:
It would be interesting to see what the completed building looks like from the inside. With Condo's we usually get to see pictures of completed units but I have yet to see pictures inside these newer TCHC buildings.

I am curious how these new TCHC apartments are fitted out on the inside - what the layouts and common areas are like etc. These new TCHC buildings really look great on the outside - are they just as deluxe on the inside?
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I was able to see into one of the ground floor units the other day and to be honest what I could see (the kitchen) wasn't too far off what I have in my unit in Luna Vista - white cabinets with white applicances
 
I have been reading this thread for awhile and decided to sign up. I am a construction worker at this building. I have been there for over a year. I will tell you a few things. 1) The units are not lavish and have cheap appliances/floors/baseboards etc.
2) Rooms are very small.
3)The building is a mess already. It looks like its already 10 years old.
4) elevators are some of the worst I have ever seen.
5) Bluescape is the worst construction managment company I have ever seen. There is zero co-ordination and very little safety.
6) Many, many things were done wrong and pushed under the rug in the name of getting the job done. Comes down to bluescape and the city of toronto. I could go on for days about this one.
7) I see a lot of people that actually require the rental assistance. However I see just as many people that are running various forms of *cash* businesses in the building.
 
keaster said:
However I see just as many people that are running various forms of *cash* businesses in the building.
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Who is to say these people don't also require rental assistance?

It astounds me that someone who rents an apartment or owns a condo can get away with any behaviour they like but the moment TCHC tenants come up in discussion, it's just suspicion and judgment on their behaviours.

I don't mean to sound snappy if that's not what you were trying to get at, but I notice this trend and it's always disturbing to me.

I live in a recently constructed condominium tower, and let me tell you, plenty of people here are pigs. The only difference is there is a condo board in place to remind people of consequences. (You wouldn't BELIEVE the things management here has to remind people about. It's like they're our babysitters.)
 
SP!RE said:
Who is to say these people don't also require rental assistance?
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You've got to be kidding me. So, it's a-ok to break the law AND ask for government assistance simultaneously? I've met a few of these types of people (usually, first generation immigrants). They're very scuzzy, and definitely not worthy of any form of public support. In fact, they're criminals, and as such, should be placed in prison.

It astounds me that someone who rents an apartment or owns a condo can get away with any behaviour they like
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That's not what is being said at all. There are several reasons why this discussion takes place for TCHC projects rather than regular market housing. Here are just a few:

1) These criminals are not contributing to the very public services that they utilize the most
2) They are illegitimately staying in publicly subsidized housing when they can afford market rate housing like the rest of us
3) There is a decade long waiting list for people who legitimately require housing assistance, while many in-service units are occupied by these individuals, whom do not truly require such assistance

There isn't some secret right-wing agenda at play here. Many of us would love to see the government providing assistance to the poor, but it is frustrating to know that this assistance is being abused at the expense of the taxpayer.
 
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