Toronto TCHC Block 32 Development | ?m | 41s | TCHC | KPMB

ChesterCopperpot said:
I was looking at some of the unit sizes and floor plans in this building - they are pretty big

http://www.torontohousing.ca/market_rent_buildings/downtown_toronto/new_railway_rentals
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makes you wonder why there are such huge multi-level units in downtown Toronto for such low prices while other people have to pay huge sums of money for a tiny apartments whilst paying thousands of dollars in taxes to support construction of these huge subsidized units... one can only wonder...
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Peepers:



Many of the new TCHC buildings participated in the Doors Open - and there had been pictures posted of the common area on UT. They are nice as in new, but not luxe in terms of finishing.

AoD
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Yes I recall UT forum members expressing disappointment that the actual units were off limits. The pictures of the common areas showed high end furnishings such as Eames Chairs. http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...rk-West-(Daniels-various)?p=274777#post274777


Originally Posted by catcher_of_cats
I visited this building for Doors Open today but left in disgust when I was told that the only thing that visitors could see besides the lobby was the boiler room. Is the TCHC afraid that the new units are "too good" and that the general public will complain when they see them?
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Torontovibe said:
I think you might be on to something there and that's what I told them. lol

Pics of the apartments. (and not good ones either lol)
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I think it would make for an interesting UT cover-story to give your readers a rare-glimpse into these new TCHC apartments.
 
^ They would undoubtedly come under fire for attacking the poor, whether that's fair criticism or not.

$1,700 for a two-floor, 5 bedroom unit does seem quite generous. That is the point of subsidized housing I suppose.
 
1,100 to 1,550 sq.ft. for a 3-bedroom unit, now that's realistic for family living.
3-bedroom units in some new upscale condos could be had in less than 800 sq.ft.
 
greenleaf said:
Peepers, what would be appropriate for TCHC to build?
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Maybe something on par with what is currently being built in the market. Yes, market condos are small. But why use taxpayers money to build huge (by current standards) condos, and then cry that there are not enough TCHC inventory...
 
Peepers said:
Yes I recall UT forum members expressing disappointment that the actual units were off limits. The pictures of the common areas showed high end furnishings such as Eames Chairs. http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...rk-West-(Daniels-various)?p=274777#post274777
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Those Eames task chairs could be reproductions, or could be donated or heavily discounted by Herman Miller who are often involved in community causes. Quality furniture is durable and long lasting, and won't require repairs or replacement for a long time.
Why can't assisted housing developments look nice?
 
Peepers said:
Yes I recall UT forum members expressing disappointment that the actual units were off limits. The pictures of the common areas showed high end furnishings such as Eames Chairs. http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...rk-West-(Daniels-various)?p=274777#post274777
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Sorry, this is what Solaris had to say literally in the same thread:

wow the unit in these pictures really show the flare of public housing !! utiliarian washrooms (like hospitals) with tiles halfway up the wall, white appliances mis-matched with dark cabinetry, what appears to be laminate counters, parkade flooring ... this is sharply in contrast with the images I vaguely remember seeing in some earlier news release from Daniels or TCHC showing a unit with condo-like finishings ... maybe that was just an 'show unit' ?? LOL
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And with regards to the supposedly "high end" common area filled with designer furniture, the finishing certainly wasn't all that designer - the tiling, finishing is utilitarian as hell.

PanOntario:

makes you wonder why there are such huge multi-level units in downtown Toronto for such low prices while other people have to pay huge sums of money for a tiny apartments whilst paying thousands of dollars in taxes to support construction of these huge subsidized units... one can only wonder.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the market component is supposed to generate revenues to support the RGI units.

AoD
 
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greenleaf said:
Peepers, what would be appropriate for TCHC to build?
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When we have 10,000's of disabled and elderly residents of Toronto on 10 year waiting lists for rent geared to income housing "RGI" it is an obscene waste of money for TCHC to be building brand new spacious apartments on some of the most expensive real-estate in the city and renting them out at a "market rate" of $1,700 for a bi-level five-bedroom - three bathroom apartment (with two dens on separate levels!).

I think we need to completely overhaul the TCHC program to do away completely with "market level rents ". Every unit should be RGI. Of course the social engineers will say that we need a mixture of incomes in order to have "healthy" communities but tell that to the disabled or elderly person who has been on years for affordable housing! I actually know such a person - a resident of Toronto for over 30 years who can no longer work because of multiple health issues and he can't get into affordable housing - this is why I feel strongly about this issue and this is why it makes me sick to see what is happening.

The truly needy and deserving in this city are not being served by TCHC!
 
Except that you assume market units does not recuperate the cost of construction AND represents a net cost to TCHC over the lifetime of the asset. Building every unit as RGI wouldn't help an iota in that case.

AoD
 
Xray_Crystal_Junkie said:
^ They would undoubtedly come under fire for attacking the poor, whether that's fair criticism or not.

$1,700 for a two-floor, 5 bedroom unit does seem quite generous. That is the point of subsidized housing I suppose.
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$1,700 isn't a subsidized rate. This is Market rate. The subsidized rate "RGI" could be just a fraction of this amount!
 
Except that you assume market units does not recuperate the cost of construction AND represents a net cost to TCHC over the lifetime of the asset. Building every unit as RGI wouldn't help an iota in that case.
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At $1,700 a month for a 5 bedroom - 3 bath - centrally air conditioned - bi-level apartment with massive terrace I cannot imagine that TCHC is breaking-even on these units much less subsidizing the rest of the complex. After all $1,700 would be the common-element charge on a Condo of similar grandiose proportions. There is no way that they can offer these "market rent" units to the general public without involving a public subsidy. The justification in the past has been to provide "mixed incomes" for a "healthy community". I think TCHC needs to get out of the social engineering business and focus on making sure that those who are truly in need and deserving have a warm roof over their heads. Many don't!
 
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At $1,700 a month for a 5 bedroom 3 bath bi-level apartment with massive terrace I cannot imagine that TCHC is breaking even on these units much less subsidizing the rest of the complex. After all $1,700 would be the common-element charge on a Condo of similar proportions. There is no way that they can offer these "market rent" units to the general public without involving a public subsidy.
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On what basis would you make that judgement? Claiming it won't and it actually isn't are two very different things. Just what exactly is the construction cost of said unit?

The justification in the past has been to provide "mixed incomes" for a "healthy community". I think TCHC needs to get out of the social engineering business and focus on making sure that those who are truly in need and deserving have a warm roof over their heads. Many don't!
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My understanding is that it is less about mixed incomes but more about subsidizing the RGI component.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
On what basis would you make that judgement? Claiming it won't and it actually isn't are two very different things. Just what exactly is the construction cost of said unit?
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The 5-Bedroom unit in question is just over 2,500 sq/ft. If this were a Condo - assuming a price of $600 per sq/ft it would be worth $1.5 Million (at least). What would a mortgage for $1.5 Million cost? According to the TD Trust mortgage calculator I get this :

For a 30 year mortgage for $1,500,000.00 at the rate of 5.24%, your Monthly payment is $8,221.56

Perhaps the real-estate experts on here can tell me if the above figure is off-base.

My understanding is that it is less about mixed incomes but more about subsidizing the RGI component.
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You can't subsidize RGI units when you are renting out "market" units at rents far lower than true market rents. The only way you could subsidize the RGI units would be if you rented the "market" units for far higher than true market rents but of course you would have trouble renting these units.

The only justification for having having a mixture of units is that it would produce a mixture of incomes and this would be "healthy" according to the social engineers.
 
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