Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

Ansem said:
I have great hope for the future.

1-The strike will sink Miller at the next election.

2-There is still hope fore a complete Sheppard line. By November 2010, the Sheppard LRT might reach the future SRT station Sheppard East (I'm being very generous of TTC competence). Many disagree with Miller's Sheppard east ambition. An opponent announcing that from Sheppard East to Downsview would be a subway would help him secure most of North York votes and Scarborough as well. If you want to beat your opponent, you tend to do the opposite and since this line is the one with the most controversy, I'm confident that the next mayor will rethink this line especially if residents from both areas express their concerns and disagreement on that line.

3-The rest of Transit City doesn't bother me and since it's paid by the province, a conservative mayor would not be able to cancel the whole thing.

4-Many members of the council are pro DRL. With proper leadership and a little common sense, this line will be easily a hot topic in the next election. With Miller trying to put us to sleep with his pro LRT's view, Torontonians will listen to the candidate that will say that it's mandatory.

5-Miller will lose the next election...Giambrone will be out.
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1. I have confidence in that fact too. I hope that next time the worker's contract is up, the City'll be able to shoo them out of the once and for all. It really makes a lot of sense, but maybe non-Miller mayors would actually have the backbone to stand up to the union's demands. That would certainly make things a lot less worse than with Miller as he currently is, bending over for the unions.

2. I was thinking that, but Morningside-Markham road (ish) is still a massive waste of money. The development around there doesn't justify LRT at all, and the only reason LRT is going there is because in Miller's (seriously messed up) world, every neighborhood should be getting pretty little european LRTs running through them. Hopefully either way, the Sheppard Subway will be finished.

3. I still have some fights to pick with the rest of Transit City (actually the entire project except Finch West,) and I don't believe all this talk that they can't be cancelled or built as subway instead.

4. Yes, the DRL should be a hot topic next election. Some candidate really needs to open the public's eyes about what transit city will do, and how strong and well-built Toronto's transportation system will be.

5. I seriously hope you're right.


Ansem said:
York should have those Viva LRT they wanted before. Subway is kind of to much. The Go train is more than enough if there's fare integretation and more frequent service like on the future Lakeshore line. That's what the RER did for Paris. With a frequent subway-like commuter train, a subway in York is really not worth it. A true LRT network would be fabolous.
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I think that BRT will be able to tide the region over while Highway 7 gets developed. I am confident that within 20 years, there will be enough development along Highway 7 between VCC and MTC to warrant subway. It would connect 3 1/2 developing urban centers (counting that 1/2 as Beaver Creek,) and Vaughn, Richmond Hill and Markham all have plans to very densely develop the rest of the area in between. This is me being as unbiased as possible, and I think that in 20 years subway will make a lot of sense. But that said, in 20 years, we should already have the DRL, Sheppard, Eglinton, Dundas and Hurontario subways.

Ansem said:
Subway= Paris
RER= Suburb link to Paris with stops within the city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RER

I'm glad that Go transit is going toward that direction.
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I agree, Go's taking a step in the right direction. They have a really long way to go still, but I have almost total confidence in them.
 
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Second_in_pie said:
Well I think that it's just that nobody but York is pushing for subway. They know what they need, and they know that crappy LRT and BRT isn't gonna cut it for both existing and planned development. That's why I keep saying that if things keep going the way they are, the only new subway in the entire GTA will be on Highway 7. I get the feeling that if Mississauga demanded the B-D to be extended to MCC and ran to the Province, the City would end up doing exactly what it is with Spadina.

Unfortunately, Mississauga and Hamilton have both successfully been brainwashed by the TTC and Toronto into believing that LRT is the magical solution to every transit problem imaginable. I don't totally argue with Hamilton's choice, as there's not a lot of density there (and I have to admit, I'm not totally sure how Hamilton's going to fare and react with growth in the rest of the GTA/Golden Horseshoe.) However, Dundas needs something more than Transit City-style LRT and I belive Hurontario is a very, very important route that needs to be higher order than LRT from both a ridership and connectivity standpoint.


Oh, and I agree with you. I could definitely see York push for a link between Spadina and Yonge to move trains between, and have the TTC end up tunneling non-revenue track to fulfill York's wishes while showing as little support for suwbay as possible.
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Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
Firstly, I don't think LRT is "crappy". I just think streetcars are crappy. And if St. Clair, Harbourfront and Spadina are any indication, the TTC's LRT will be juts as crappy as our streetcars.

Secondly, LRT deployed properly is sufficient for Hurontario I think. It's a completely new ROW so it doesn't have to be subway, even though it's busier than Dundas. I do think a subway is ABSOLUTELY needed between Kipling and Mississauga City Centre. The routing is debatable. I'm somewhat partial to running it along Bloor (and moving Kipling station to Bloor St); others favour Dundas. Still others favour diverting to Sherway Gardens. Only real expert transit planners will be able to give us the correct answer on that one though.



Hamilton is a perfect fit for LRT since it's a mid-sized city. Mississauga is a large city, and at least one subway is needed. Mississauga's problem is that it's debt-free and scared to death of the operating costs of a subway, and it knows that it would force it to go in the red for the first time in 20 years. Mississauga under Hazel isn't prepared to do that. Maybe someone else would realize that a subway into Mississauga would be an investment.

But we can't really blame Mississauga. Scarborough is getting the really short end of the stick. The subways currently end at Don Mills (Sheppard) and at Kennedy (Danforth). Not a single subway reaches Scarborough City Centre! It's ridiculous. And the worst part of it is that the area councillors got bought off to accept a SRT Mk II replacement over a subway replacement. Pitiful.




I think the Sheppard link to Spadina is a missing link. It would just make Sheppard more complete. And they could save money by having Sheppard and Spadina trains both using Downsview and Sheppard West. Sheppard West is a logical end-point for the Sheppard Line in the west at this time. Just as STC is the logical endpoint on the east side. It's a crying shame Miller and Giambrone don't realize this. Because honestly the TTC is making stupid decisions right now, and it all comes down to who's at the top.
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LRT is a good choice for Hamilton for several reasons. Hamilton was built on the streetcar and is very walkable and compact (it is much denser than Mississauga overall, and the density continues over a larger area). North-south distances in the lower city are easily walkable, transit is mainly oriented east-west, and limited to 4 major corridors: Barton/Cannon/Main/King. The majority of current bus routes are along Main/King and could be combined into the LRT line. Barton, King and parts of Main are lined with commercial; a combination of LRT and some good jobs would do wonders for the vacant commercial along King East. The residential is already solid middle class in most areas south of King, LRT would only make it more attractive. Three employment clusters will be served: McMaster U, McMaster Innovation Park (MIP) and Downtown. Surprisingly, downtown Hamilton has about 30,000 jobs, but it's MIP that will be bringing the good jobs to Hamilton in the years to come. I could envision well paid researchers picking up nice Edwardian homes in the St. Clair/Delta area and commuting by LRT to MIP.
 
Okay, maybe Hamilton was a bad example. I'll actually be pretty happy to see Hamilton get on board the train for LRT (haha, pun :p) It suits the city very well, both by character and by actual usefulness.
 
from today's press release.....

For release - August 7, 2009

Government Partnership Creates Jobs with Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension

TORONTO — Mr. Bob Dechert, Member of Parliament for Mississauga Erindale, Ontario Transportation Minister Jim Bradley, Toronto Transit Commission chair Adam Giambrone and York Regional chair Bill Fisch joined LOVAT Inc. president Dick Cooper in announcing today that a contract for the purchase of four tunnel boring machines for the Toronto-York Spadina subway extension has been awarded to the Toronto company LOVAT Inc.

The total contract value is approximately $58.4 million and will generate manufacturing jobs in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA). The announcement was made during a tour of the LOVAT Inc. facility where the tunnel boring machines will be built.

"In 2007, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced the benefits of building a new Spadina subway line extension, and an important federal investment in the project," said MP Dechert. "Today I'm proud to highlight that here in the GTA, a local company will use its expertise to build an essential piece of machinery for the construction of this extension."

"This is another step forward in getting the Spadina subway into service and getting more people out of single-occupant cars and onto public transit," said Minister Bradley.

"We are pleased to be a part of this significant mass-transit project, as it not only generates jobs and strengthens infrastructure locally but also highlights Canada's technological capabilities on a global scale," said Mr. Cooper. "To ensure the project schedule is met, the design and manufacturing process for the six-metre diameter tunnel boring machines is already well underway. Each machine will undergo a comprehensive series of tests prior to its delivery to the contractor."

The $58-million contract represents about two per cent of the total cost of the extension. These tunnel boring machines will either be reused on other projects, if and when possible, or will be resold, whereby the Toronto Transit Commission will be able to recoup up to 30 per cent of its initial investment.

The first two tunnel boring machines are expected to be delivered in fall 2010, and tunnel boring is likely to begin shortly afterwards. The remaining two machines are expected to be delivered by spring 2011.

The total cost of the subway extension is estimated at $2.6 billion and is expected to be complete in 2015.

The Toronto-York Spadina subway extension project is jointly funded by the Government of Canada, the Province of Ontario, the City of Toronto, and The Regional Municipality of York.
 
Seriously, boring should have started at least this year, given that funding has been in place since early 2008. No wonder people loose faith in transit projects. They take forever to plan and even longer to start visible construction.
 
Darkstar416 said:
So boring will begin over a year from now? Wow, this project is taking forever.
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one may say it's been quite boring as of lately. ;)

okay, that's enough of the boring jokes.
 
The faster they build it the better! 2015 is a long time from now.
 
Ah damn, they won't get these dumb drillers until October 2010, and that means that digging will probably start in 2011. Oh man, is this ludicrous or what???


Here's an article similar to the already posted one.
http://www.thestar.com/article/669861

At least it shows the faith of the Sheppard drillers...
"The TTC sold the Sheppard machines to two construction companies in Russia for $2.5 million each once the line was complete."




Here's the full scoop... but what bothers me is why do they not have these already???



Single-use drills to cost TTC $58M

Hefty price tag for new tunnel-boring machines needed to finish Spadina-York Region line on time
Jul 22, 2009 04:30 AM
Comments on this story (24)
Tess Kalinowski
TRANSPORTATION REPORTER

The TTC plans to spend $58 million on four giant tunnel-boring machines that will be used only once – to dig a 13.5-kilometre twin tunnel as part of the Spadina subway extension to York Region.

City councillors who sit on the Toronto Transit Commission approved the expense July 10, but only after questioning the number of machines.

The machines will be custom-built by Lovat Inc., which bid about $555,000 less than a competitor. The same company sold the TTC two similar machines for $15 million to tunnel the Sheppard subway about six kilometres between Yonge St. and Don Mills Rd.

The TTC sold the Sheppard machines to two construction companies in Russia for $2.5 million each once the line was complete. Nicknamed Rock and Roll, each weighed about 235 tonnes and could drill through about 15.7 metres of ground in eight hours.

Here are some answers transit commissioners got from TTC staff on the purchase:

Q: Would the machines used on Sheppard have worked on the Spadina extension?

A: No. The newer machines are more technologically advanced and work faster and more efficiently. They're a relatively minor part of the total construction cost of about $400 million, according to Andy Bertolo, project manager of the York-Spadina subway.

Also, the Sheppard tunnel was 5.2 metres wide. The new machines will build a 5.4-metre tunnel to accommodate a sharper curve on Spadina and new fire protection standards that require wider train walkways, he said.

Q: Couldn't the TTC buy second-hand tunnel boring machines?

A: "We have not found suitable machines in this diameter," said Bertolo.

Q: How much could the TTC recoup on its investment if it resold the machines?

A: Not more than 30 per cent.

Q: When will the machines arrive?

A: The first pair arrive in October 2010. "Machines of this type take a long period to manufacture," Bertolo said.

Q: Couldn't the TTC work with fewer machines?

A: One less machine would extend the construction schedule by five months over the anticipated 2015 completion date, according to Bertolo.

Q: Why can't the same machines be used on the new Transit City lines, including a 10-kilometre tunnel planned for the Eglinton Crosstown line?

A: The TTC doesn't yet know how wide the Transit City tunnels will be because it hasn't been decided which cars will run on those lines.

The TTC has commissioned Bombardier to build 204 light-rail vehicles (LRVs) to run on the 11 existing streetcar lines. That contract includes an option to build up to 368 more cars for Toronto's new Transit City lines, said Gary Webster, chief general manager of the TTC.

"Because (Metrolinx is) going to have involvement in all aspects of Transit City, including the car, the lines, the yards – they want to be satisfied that exercising the option from Bombardier is the right thing to do," he said.

The Transit City Eglinton Crosstown line will require 129 LRVs; the renovation of the Scarborough Rapid Transit will need 62; Finch West, 37 and Sheppard, 35.
 
With these tunnel boring machines the TTC could cut down on the cost of any other subway projects they have in the future. Hopefully they don't sell this equipment when this Spadina project is completed.
 
GTS said:
With these tunnel boring machines the TTC could cut down on the cost of any other subway projects they have in the future. Hopefully they don't sell this equipment when this Spadina project is completed.
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Assuming they are 1) the right size, 2) needed immediately; then yes.

I don't imagine TBMs store well for more than a year. Cars still seize up if you don't run them periodically and I can't imagine how many moving parts a TBM must have.

Training the crews on the TBMs is probably a bigger cost than the TBMs themselves. I know Ontario Hydro's new pipe in the falls expected a 6 month ramp-up time mostly so the crews learn how to best use the equipment, and the manager figures out scheduling (what truck needs to be where at what minute).

If we do want to build additional subway line it is a good reason to have plans and funding in place for 2013 or so.
 
Knowing how much time will have passed between EA completion on the Spadina-York extension and the time drilling starts, the Eglinton line might be ready for drilling about the same time these drills are finished their duties.
 
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