Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

[Second_in_pie]

The potential LRT plans on Jane are for at least 15-20 years down the road, hence the 2031 plan. It's York Region who is considering it, not Vaughan. There is a lot traffic on Jane, and considering the potential that exists for high-density developments around Jane & 7 that will bring more people and traffic to the area, then a dedicated transit ROW on Jane doesn't seem too bad.

I work in the suburban industrial park along Jane, and no there are not many people who walk throughout the area. But there are still a lot of people who take the buses that go up and down streets like Millway and Edgeley.

Why don't they just cut out Everything past Steeles West and run Jane (which would probably become Viva Orange) as a BRT Line from Steeles West up to Wonderland or further? That makes a fair bit of sense to me. Subway's not really needed past York U, and Viva Orange up Jane St. would probably get a lot of ridership from people getting to Wonderland

 

[drum118]

I was wondering does anybody know that if the Yonge extension gets funded that it will take as long as the spadina extension to start construction? I mean it seems like they've been going through alot of plans and assessments for the yonge extension, was wondering if maybe the engineering phases might be a littl ebit quicker?

Been up front, I am shooting and doing everything in my power to see this extension converted to an LRT. Ridership numbers don't support a subway now or 25 years from now.

The engineering will be less than Spadina since it in a straight line.

You cannot built unless you plan and understand what in the path to produce engineer drawing.

All stations will be cut and fill that will tear up Yonge St and making traffic a mess for years.

Engineering cannot be faster without some paying for it and knowing it will be done in the first place. Why would York pay for now when they are in debit, add hundred of million more to the debit and the possible that it could be push back into the 25 year time frame from the current 15 year???

 

[Rainforest]

Why don't they just cut out Everything past Steeles West and run Jane (which would probably become Viva Orange) as a BRT Line from Steeles West up to Wonderland or further? That makes a fair bit of sense to me. Subway's not really needed past York U, and Viva Orange up Jane St. would probably get a lot of ridership from people getting to Wonderland

That would make a lot of sense, I don't understand why subway to VCC got funded before a host of much busier routes.

Future density around VCC is a huge bet, and if it does not work out as expected, then the section north of Steeles will remain a joke in terms of ridership. The current ridership on VIVA Orange barely justifies an express bus on 10 - 15 frequency.

Subway to York U and Steeles West, at least, makes some sense, although even that segment does not necessarily outperform other potential subway lines or extensions.

 

[Amphibius]

That would make a lot of sense, I don't understand why subway to VCC got funded before a host of much busier routes.

Future density around VCC is a huge bet, and if it does not work out as expected, then the section north of Steeles will remain a joke in terms of ridership. The current ridership on VIVA Orange barely justifies an express bus on 10 - 15 frequency.

Subway to York U and Steeles West, at least, makes some sense, although even that segment does not necessarily outperform other potential subway lines or extensions.

Thank you, I've been scratching my head over Transit (Transfer) City for years now and thought I was alone in my dissatisfaction. Way to sell our city short. The Spadina Extension is only justified to York U and just how many new riders such an extension would generate is questionable. I've heard figures of + 20,000ppd onto existing YUS daily boardings by 2030 being tossed around. Not very high considering anywhere between a quarter to half million people would daily ride along a DRL built to full capacity potential (Eglinton-Eglinton).

The unfortunate reality of the situation is that TYSSE is highly inflated and sets a bad precedent for the likelihood of any future lines getting built in Toronto/GTA. $300 M/km is grossly too high and unnecessary given the low-density, post-industrial sprawl nature of the Downsview area. The extension should really be partially open-trenched or elevated en route, only dipping completely underground again north of the Hydro Corridor through campus grounds. Why we're burying it full length is beyond me.

As for the Vaughan sides of things... What's tragic about VCC is the futility of it. Driving across Hwy 7 one quickly comes to realize that there's nothing particularly unique nor special about the Edgeley/Jane/7 region. Big-box retail chains are a commonplace sight at every major intersection dotting that corridor. And walk-in potential will be very weak because nowhere apart from the odd condo will be centralized to the actual station location. Everyone will have to be bussed in. Which begs the question; why couldn't these marginally few locals not utilize the transit hub at Steeles West Stn instead?

It'd work out better for Brampton Transit riders as well as the original 77A route had proven saving 20 minutes travel time from not staying on Hwy 7 through Woodbridge. A modified 360 Maple route north from Steeles West is all the VCC area needs, as I'm not even convinced VIVA Orange should remain in service (average 10-12 passengers per trip is dismal). And don't even get me started on these ridiculous 407 Transitway stops that seem to be popping up on each and every new N-S rapid transit proposal.

 

[LAz]

Work will not start on stations until mid/late 2010. Tunneling may get started late this year, but most likely early 2010.

Could they at least start digging? How difficult is it to make part of the tunnel, and leave the stations for later? It's just a tunnel, and it's long, so I figure if they start digging they would at least be making some progress.

I dunno, to me it seems like endless delays.

 

[urbanfan89]

Part of me wish we could be like the Chinese in terms of building transit infrastructure: the planners draw a line on the map, make the necessary expropriations (hopefully with thoughtfulness) while engineers draw the designs and then the state-owned construction companies and their state-owned suppliers start moving in the next day and work 24/7 for three years, and them BOOM! It's all over.

 

[Dan416]

Part of me wish we could be like the Chinese in terms of building transit infrastructure: the planners draw a line on the map, make the necessary expropriations (hopefully with thoughtfulness) while engineers draw the designs and then the state-owned construction companies and their state-owned suppliers start moving in the next day and work 24/7 for three years, and them BOOM! It's all over.

We can dream!

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

That would make a lot of sense, I don't understand why subway to VCC got funded before a host of much busier routes.

Future density around VCC is a huge bet, and if it does not work out as expected, then the section north of Steeles will remain a joke in terms of ridership. The current ridership on VIVA Orange barely justifies an express bus on 10 - 15 frequency.

A huge bet? There are only three certainties in life: Death, taxes and rampant development in Vaughan. There's ALREADY at least one proposal for a 3,500-resident condo on the books.

Amphibius makes a valid point about what a big box hell it is now but that's all going to go away in time. Same thing's going to happen with the strip that includes Silver City Richmond Hill and Home Depot at Yonge Street; Metrus owns all that land they'll be only too happy to trade up when the time is ripe to build 40-story condos.

 

[Dan416]

A huge bet? There are only three certainties in life: Death, taxes and rampant development in Vaughan. There's ALREADY at least one proposal for a 3,500-resident condo on the books.

Amphibius makes a valid point about what a big box hell it is now but that's all going to go away in time. Same thing's going to happen with the strip that includes Silver City Richmond Hill and Home Depot at Yonge Street; Metrus owns all that land they'll be only too happy to trade up when the time is ripe to build 40-story condos.

I'm sorry that argument just doesn't fly with me. If we go by that logic, Heartland Town Centre needs a subway yesterday, nevermind MCC.

 

[xtremesniper]

I'm definitely not convinced that Vaughan has/will have enough ridership to justify a subway, let alone LRT.

As an example, a huge majority of people going to York University come from either south-east (Toronto), or from north-east (Richmond Hill, Markham, etc). Some evidence of this is seen when just glancing at the buses pulling into the campus. Viva Purple (coming from the north-east), is almost always packed. Viva Orange? As someone mentioned earlier, that route barely supports a 15 minute frequency. TTC route 196A/B? Also packed. Try getting on that route at almost any time of day; there's almost always an obscnely long lineup. YRT route 20? Even at the low frequency it operates on it can't fill a bus, and this is the route that takes you right to Vaughan Corporate Centre and Vaughan Mills.

I've yet to be convinced that this extension all the way into Vaughan is necessary, and I really can't believe that it was thought up before Yonge Street. What a joke. There are far more people screaming for better transit support in other areas of York Region than in Vaughan.

 

[Epi]

The extension up to VCC IS a joke, and I live in Vaughan.

It should be LRT from Steeles on up, up to Wonderland. Unfortunately I guess the province didn't want to cough up money unless it was a lot of money with a significant line.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Everyone's having a cow over about 2km of subway north of York. This is the segment of subway that enabled all other major transit projects on the table to get funding...it will never at "at capacity" (nor should it or could it) but having a well-used segment along which you just might get a seat during rush hour and helping trigger a huge transit-oriented development and increase transit's share of overall trips in the NW just might be worth 'putting up with' if it means a bajillion dollars worth of additional lines. Of course, if it was closer to capacity (not that that is possible or remotely desirable for a terminus segment), you would all be complaining about how crowded it is.

 

[xtremesniper]

Everyone's having a cow over about 2km of subway north of York. This is the segment of subway that enabled all other major transit projects on the table to get funding...it will never at "at capacity" (nor should it or could it) but having a well-used segment along which you just might get a seat during rush hour and helping trigger a huge transit-oriented development and increase transit's share of overall trips in the NW just might be worth 'putting up with' if it means a bajillion dollars worth of additional lines. Of course, if it was closer to capacity (not that that is possible or remotely desirable for a terminus segment), you would all be complaining about how crowded it is.

There's a difference between being crowded and inefficient/slow (North America), and being crowded yet efficient (Europe/Asia). The Yonge line is pretty packed during the rush hours, but I still get to my destination on time provided that there is no delay along the way. That, I don't mind.

But if we're spending millions and millions of dollars on a part of a subway line that won't get used, then what a waste. People were laughing at Sheppard when the subway was built there, but this will be the ultimate joke in comparison. At least Sheppard gets its fair amount of use during certain hours of the day.

So, I'm all for crowded lines, because all that will mean is that the cost was justified and then you talk about moving on to the next step.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

There's a difference between being crowded and inefficient/slow (North America), and being crowded yet efficient (Europe/Asia). The Yonge line is pretty packed during the rush hours, but I still get to my destination on time provided that there is no delay along the way. That, I don't mind.

But if we're spending millions and millions of dollars on a part of a subway line that won't get used, then what a waste. People were laughing at Sheppard when the subway was built there, but this will be the ultimate joke in comparison. At least Sheppard gets its fair amount of use during certain hours of the day.

So, I'm all for crowded lines, because all that will mean is that the cost was justified and then you talk about moving on to the next step.

If the people who decide whether or not something is justified are the same ones laughing at lines that get a fair amount of use, well, that shows how valuable their opinions are (or should be, since common sense is noticeably lacking in much of the decision-making process in this city).

 

[Dan416]

Scarberian it's intellectually dishonest to support the subway to VCC and not to MCC. At least Mississauga has the ridership now that Vaughan will never have. Even as a Mississaugan though, I would support getting rid of the SRT and replacing it with subway to STC, just because it IS within Toronto and definitely deserves a subway yesterday. Next should be MCC and RHC. Only last would I say VCC, and really, it still doesn't even deserve a subway.