Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

Wow -- everyone here is pro-subway. This must be the anti-matter universe to Steve Munro's blog. There, if you post a pro-subway comment, you get torn to shreds by the old coot and his loyal followers.
 
LowerBay said:
Wow -- everyone here is pro-subway. This must be the anti-matter universe to Steve Munro's blog. There, if you post a pro-subway comment, you get torn to shreds by the old coot and his loyal followers.
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Haha that's true. I used to read his stuff religiously, but now I'm starting to just skim his articles and take it all with a grain of salt. I like his ideas and opinions, but sometimes I think he's stuck in some weird realm that I just can't understand... and that's the best way I can explain it.

Honestly though, I'm all for subways in certain scenarios where LRT or BRT doesn't make sense. In certain cases, people have to move underground. I don't think we'll be able to simply say LRT is the answer to everything in the long term, because it only works to a certain extent. You need to be able to preserve certain historical areas, which is why there was such an uproar in Thornhill when VivaNext was talking about a BRT/LRT route along Yonge where the Yonge extension is now. That is why people decided to push for subways instead; to preserve historical stretches of Yonge that cannot be widened without destroying buildings.
 
xtremesniper said:
Haha that's true. I used to read his stuff religiously, but now I'm starting to just skim his articles and take it all with a grain of salt. I like his ideas and opinions, but sometimes I think he's stuck in some weird realm that I just can't understand.
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He's very intelligent and articulate, but I wonder why he's never driven a car (phobia maybe?). Maybe that explains his realm.
 
Robert Moses, who built most of the freeways and bridges in New York, and who was anti-transit for the most part, never had a drivers license.

As for VCC being all big box stores today, when Finch Station was built it was surrounded by strip malls. And all the land north of Steeles West was for the most part farmland. Look at the area today.
 
In Manhattan I suppose you can get away with never driving a car, but here? Even so, a driver's license is the gold standard of identification in Ontario and Canada. Everyone asks for a driver's license as the first piece of ID in anything you do ... banks, gov't agencies, etc. etc. ... and they don't accept Health cards.

Steve Munro's transit advocacy is akin to a single guy offering couples marital advice. You actually need to drive to FULLY UNDERSTAND the mindset of auto drivers and their emotional love-affair with the car. Only then can you plan an effective mass transit system that can compete. When you've only ridden 10 km/hr streetcars all your life and never touched a 400 series highway ... or even a bicycle, how can you compare and know what the general public really wants and what the needs of the GTA really are?
 
A passport is an easy alternative to a driver's licence and is the genuine gold standard for ID. Also lasts five years, and costs about the same.

Please, feel free to criticise Munro's ideas and arguments (he is one for debate, and I've scrapped with him many a time), but keep it at that.
 
There is a big difference between the VCC subway and other GTA's subway projects on the table.

All other projects would facilitate a large number of existing trips, as well as generate new trips. A large number of existing trips to downtown would switch to DRL. Yonge north has steady bus ridership. Spadina extension up to Steeles would tailor to York U students and staff. Same can be said about Eglinton, Sheppard East, Danforth to STC, even Bloor into Mississauga subways: a large number of existing riders, or riders who will readily switch from parallel routes.

So, while there may be a debate in each of those cases as if the demand should be addressed by subway, LRT, or GO trains, subway is a legitimate option.

The Steeles to VCC segment is the only one where the existing demand is miniscule, hence the success of the subway extension rests entirely on the volume of new development, which might or might not materialize. Which brings a question: why has that route been selected for subway-grade investment, ahead of all other routes and ahead of any area-wide transit network discussion?

It is true that the Spadina extension project contributed to the emergence of both Transit City and the other subway projects. However, that fact speaks about the quality of transit planning in GTA, rather than about the valuability of VCC subway.
 
ShonTron said:
A passport is an easy alternative to a driver's licence and is the genuine gold standard for ID. Also lasts five years, and costs about the same.
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Before driver's licences had photographs on them, I simply used my Canadian Citizenship card - never had a problem with that. There are lots of people who don't have driver's licences, and I haven't heard them mention that they have problems. Elections Canada was taking Ontario Health Cards at the last election (seems that the federal government they aren't bound by Provincial laws restricting the use of the cards).

And of late, I've been asked for Photo ID a couple of times when using my VISA card, so I'm planning to start carrying my old Ontario Age of Majority (or whatever it was called) from the 1980s.
 
LowerBay said:
In Manhattan I suppose you can get away with never driving a car, but here? Even so, a driver's license is the gold standard of identification in Ontario and Canada. Everyone asks for a driver's license as the first piece of ID in anything you do ... banks, gov't agencies, etc. etc. ... and they don't accept Health cards.
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Actually, a passport is the gold standard.

Drivers licenses are most commonly carried as most people drove to the bank, so legally they must be carrying it but a passport is often preferred, particularly for banks when large dollar values are involved.

Government agencies in Eastern Europe don't much care for your Ontario Drivers license. Even the Safeway in Portland may have issues with it (Vineopolis for the win!); so (I assume) the passport is best pretty much everywhere.



As for living without a vehicle, it depends on the person. I would rather go to Miami Beach than Wasaga Beach, or Berlin/Paris over Muskoka. So, for me to pay $25k on a parking spot + $10k per year on vehicle payments/insurance/etc. to make a monthly treck north is silly. Flights to Miami and Paris are about the same annual cost and I enjoy them far more.
 
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Ontario Health Cards are always good identification in Ontario BUT they cannot write down the number on the front or request a photocopy. Due to this the bank, for example, will not have a paper trail which is preferred by things like Fintrac.

Health Cards, are actually better than drivers licenses because of this restriction. It is more difficult (though not much) to create a fake Ontario health card than a fake Ontario drivers license.


As for transit, Air Canada is my favourite public transportation system. The reason I can take Air Canada is because I take the TTC.

Really, take all of your car related expenditures for a month, bundle it up and see where you could have flown to instead. Not for everyone, but it sure works well for me.
 
Honestly though, I had a friend that didn't have a driver's license and she'd have to carry her Passport on her all the time if she was planning on drinking at all. It's a hassle. It's easier for her because she has a big purse to throw it in, but I know personally that I'd go crazy trying to find places to put that booklet all the time.
 
xtremesniper said:
Honestly though, I had a friend that didn't have a driver's license and she'd have to carry her Passport on her all the time if she was planning on drinking at all. It's a hassle. It's easier for her because she has a big purse to throw it in, but I know personally that I'd go crazy trying to find places to put that booklet all the time.
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i'm in the same situation. don't have a driver's license so it's always a gamble whether i'll be able to get into a bar or not. usually they don't have a problem with health cards. but some places are really strict about it. i for one can't wait until they come out with normal photo id cards.
 
Even if you never plan to own a car in your life, having a full G license should be something that you attain as an adult sometime in your life. You never know when you'll need to drive somewhere, and even if this country is as connected as Europe or Japan by public, intercity transit, there will always be parts of the continent where it will be impractical to reach without a car. Not knowing how to drive and being proud of it is like being proud of not knowing how to swim. How can knowledge like this - actually any knowledge at all - be detrimental?

Anyway, whether Steve Munro has a drivers license, or not, I'm pretty sure he's sat in the passenger seat of a car a few times and knows a little bit about the kind of commute that motorists in Toronto endure.
 
Hipster Duck said:
Even if you never plan to own a car in your life, having a full G license should be something that you attain as an adult sometime in your life. You never know when you'll need to drive somewhere, and even if this country is as connected as Europe or Japan by public, intercity transit, there will always be parts of the continent where it will be impractical to reach without a car. Not knowing how to drive and being proud of it is like being proud of not knowing how to swim. How can knowledge like this - actually any knowledge at all - be detrimental?

Anyway, whether Steve Munro has a drivers license, or not, I'm pretty sure he's sat in the passenger seat of a car a few times and knows a little bit about the kind of commute that motorists in Toronto endure.
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While I agree with most of what you said, I don't think it's practical for many people to pursue a G license if they don't own a vehicle. Aside from the obvious reasons (not owning a car to do practice in), the ministry has some rules that say you have to have a certain number of hours dedicated to highway driving before you're allowed to attempt your G road test. How you'd be able to get that kind of highway time without owning a car is beyond me. You can only use your driving school instructor's car for so long before you run out of money.
 
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